Topic: Patina Hyena - 550/650 674cc Hybrid Cafe Build

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

I would pull and replace the bad exhaust studs.

[DaveBarbier]

I would pull and replace the bad exhaust studs.

That's my fear. I don't remember ever pulling an exhaust stud and having it come out nicely, haha. I know that's the best route but maybe I'll chicken out.


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1978 Honda CB550K

[calj737]

It's not rocket science, Dave. You can do it. Heath it up red hot, shoot some PB ahead of time and while its smoking hot. Use an extractor or double nut it. If you double nut it, use a deep socket and gently tighten first, then turn out. Don't force it. If it doesn't turn smoothly out, reheat it. Poor the heat to it at the base of the stud where it hits the heads.

[DaveBarbier]

It's not rocket science, Dave. You can do it. Heath it up red hot, shoot some PB ahead of time and while its smoking hot. Use an extractor or double nut it. If you double nut it, use a deep socket and gently tighten first, then turn out. Don't force it. If it doesn't turn smoothly out, reheat it. Poor the heat to it at the base of the stud where it hits the heads.

Ok, cool. I'll give it a shot. Thanks


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1978 Honda CB550K

[DaveBarbier]

Motor is almost or ready to come out. Need to weld on a nut or spare socket to the oil filter bolt, it used to be a 12mm but now it's just round, the PO must have tried to take it off with pliers or something. Tried to force on an 11mm, nope, tried vice grips, nope, think welding on something will be my best bet.

Also, broke a bolt in the oil pan, but with the motor out it'll be easy to remove I think. And lastly, the shifter is free! It too was fused, but fused to the side cover, badly. Worked at it a bit and got the side cover off with a small crack over the starter, damn. Might find another cover somewhere. But the good news is the tranny shifts like butter, or like a well oiled Mossberg.


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1978 Honda CB550K

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

Motor is almost or ready to come out. Need to weld on a nut or spare socket to the oil filter bolt, it used to be a 12mm but now it's just round, the PO must have tried to take it off with pliers or something. Tried to force on an 11mm, nope, tried vice grips, nope, think welding on something will be my best bet.

Also, broke a bolt in the oil pan, but with the motor out it'll be easy to remove I think. And lastly, the shifter is free! It too was fused, but fused to the side cover, badly. Worked at it a bit and got the side cover off with a small crack over the starter, damn. Might find another cover somewhere. But the good news is the tranny shifts like butter, or like a well oiled Mossberg.


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1978 Honda CB550K

Good news about the transmission.

[RAFster122s]

Hope you never need a Mossberg to protect your bike...

Glad your transmission is in solid shape, will put your mind at ease when you have it reassembled.
David

[DaveBarbier]

Hope you never need a Mossberg to protect your bike...

Glad your transmission is in solid shape, will put your mind at ease when you have it reassembled.
David

I can't yet say that my tranny is in good shape, but it does shift nicely. I can't wait to crack it open. I did take the little valve tappet caps off and peeked in and everything looks really nice. Of what I could see the cam lobes are in great shape, I'm psyched!


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1978 Honda CB550K

[DaveBarbier]

Replacing front wheel bearings with All Balls and I have a concern, while installing, before I got out the all-thread, I used a socket and hammer. BUT I did this without bracing the other side of the hub like an idiot.  I got about half way and realized what the hell I was doing...what's the likelihood of the hub not being centered as it should from me hammering on it without support?


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1978 Honda CB550K

[DaveBarbier]

Also, one bearing has a seat that it gets driven home to, but the other side doesn't have one. Don't want to go too deep. Should it just go flush with the hub? I don't want to make the axle collar too tight. Or...is that exactly what I'm aiming for? A tightly sandwiched collar?


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1978 Honda CB550K

[DaveBarbier]

Doing a dual disc trailing caliper conversion. Excited to be using Godffrey's setup, I can't wait! Question though, I swapped forks and spun them around and I can see already that the now left fork's tab for the caliper adjuster screw is slightly more outboard compared to the other side. Is this normal? Do you people just get a longer adjuster screw and spring? I thought these forks were exact mirrors of one another.





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1978 Honda CB550K

[RAFster122s]

The forks aren't finished for a bolt up and go arrangement for dual discs, it takes some shimming or filing to make it work correctly and you running it as trailing setup will have to do that most likely on one or both sides to align the caliper arm and caliper in both planes vertical and horizontally to align correctly with the disc. The disc will bolt up flat, provided it is true and you then align the bracket to get it to trail in this case correctly down the center of the rotor, then adding the caliper you tweak the alignment to ensure the pads are contacting flat across the face, that's where it can get tricky, especially since you are going with the trailing caliper arm approach. Hope you are good with geometry and figuring out planes of intersection and can figure out where to add or take away from the washer stack or the mounting boss to get it to align correctly.

David

[DaveBarbier]

The forks aren't finished for a bolt up and go arrangement for dual discs, it takes some shimming or filing to make it work correctly and you running it as trailing setup will have to do that most likely on one or both sides to align the caliper arm and caliper in both planes vertical and horizontally to align correctly with the disc. The disc will bolt up flat, provided it is true and you then align the bracket to get it to trail in this case correctly down the center of the rotor, then adding the caliper you tweak the alignment to ensure the pads are contacting flat across the face, that's where it can get tricky, especially since you are going with the trailing caliper arm approach. Hope you are good with geometry and figuring out planes of intersection and can figure out where to add or take away from the washer stack or the mounting boss to get it to align correctly.

David

Oh ok, that makes me feel better. As long as it's a normal thing going on here. The alignment process actually doesn't seem too difficult. Famous last words, I know. I'll just have to tackle the whole thing after I get the rotors from Godffrey.

Thanks David


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1978 Honda CB550K

[DaveBarbier]

Finally had time to get the motor out. The frame is bent and the front right of the frame where the motor mount is was cracked and welded together with a sleeve. But the welds broke so the frame was loose. I also couldn't remove the oil pan so I just cut a section of the frame out since it's trash anyway. Makes it a lot easier to pull the motor, haha. After the motor was out I got the pan off by drilling out the screw. I thought the threads weren't seized in the case and only in the oil pan but I was wrong. Seized in both places.



After that I ground down and made it flat and then center punched it. Got some left handed bits and tried to drill it out.



No luck, with a steady hand it kept drifting. Right now it's kind of a hole but some screw is still left in there. It's flush with the case so I might just omit that screw. Not sure it actually needs all 10 screws to prevent leaking. I wish I had just welded a nut on the stub that was exposed and tried pulling it out that way. Bummer. Oh well, today I'm going to try to remove the buggered up exhaust stud. I WILL be welding a nut on that to try and extract it. PB blaster and the heat from welding should help me out. Even if it pulls out the aluminum threads with it I can tap and helicoil.


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1978 Honda CB550K

[DaveBarbier]

Ok, decided not to pull the stud. I cut off the aluminum collar and it's clean and nice. A lot easier than I thought. Strong tight stud with no play and not bent. In my opinion, no need to replace it.




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1978 Honda CB550K

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

Well done. The donor is free of its anchor.

[DaveBarbier]

Well done. The donor is free of its anchor.

And it's being disassembled as we speak.

Cam and journals look great in my opinion. A little bit of wear on the head, but compared to my 550 its pristine.











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1978 Honda CB550K

[DaveBarbier]

A little scared, I see that this has cylinder head BOLTS...not studs with nuts. The way it's been happening, many bolts haven't really came out well...when it comes to steel bolts in aluminum. They've been bathing in PB Blaster for about an hour. Wish me luck.


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1978 Honda CB550K

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

FYI -- the APE 500/550 heavy duty studs also replace these bolts.

[DaveBarbier]

Oh ok, cool. Thanks CB750. All came out ok but two snapped off. One only about an inch or two below the bolt head but the other snapped off right where the threads start. I used propane and PB Blaster but didn't seem to help. I wonder if I should get MAPP gas for a little more heat next time.

But head is off and head gasket came off SUPER easy and in one piece which is awesome! Nice cylinder walls too. You can see the hone lines still. Again, less than 8k miles on the clock.





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1978 Honda CB550K

[DaveBarbier]

Calling it a night. But the cylinders seem to be giving me a real hard time. No bolts holding it on but it's not budging. And it doesn't have pry points like the 550 for some reason, but the head did... Tried propane aimed at the cylinders/case seam. No change. Tried rubber and wooden mallet. Tried actual hammer hitting piece of wood flat against the side, nothing. Tried stuffing the 1 and 4 cylinders with rags and putting the head on, then bolting the head down with the two center small screws and rotating the motor with the rotor bolt but the bolt kept coming off. I didn't want to reverse the rotation.

My next idea tomorrow (after more heat and mallet hitting) is to use a tap to make threads in 4 of the head bolt holes (stay with me here). Maybe tap about an inch and a half or so. Then, put a length of rod in the holes that go all the way down to the bottom of the holes. Then, thread bolts into the newly tapped holes so the bolts press on the rods, which will hopefully push the cylinders off.

Is that a crazy idea to tap the cylinders? Any other suggestions? I think the one snapped head bolt is keeping the cylinders on.


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1978 Honda CB550K

[Bootsey]

New project looks like it will keep you busy for a while Dave - look forward to the updates.

I tried the trick I think I saw on one of Cal's threads, the soak with, then molotov of acetone & ATF. After a few cycles of heating & cooling, I was able to move the pistons, with a spanner on the alternator bolt, and pull the cylinders off.

[DaveBarbier]

New project looks like it will keep you busy for a while Dave - look forward to the updates.

I tried the trick I think I saw on one of Cal's threads, the soak with, then molotov of acetone & ATF. After a few cycles of heating & cooling, I was able to move the pistons, with a spanner on the alternator bolt, and pull the cylinders off.

Thanks Bootsey, yeah I always need a project and this definitely qualifies.

My pistons are free, and everything spins really nicely. Just the cylinder block or jugs is stuck on the case half. Like, really stuck. Like a mother holding on to her child stuck. I know it's bad to spin the motor in reverse, I don't really know why, though. My cam and head is off so I don't see an issue. But would it be bad to do the rag in cylinders 1&4 again but rotate the motor the other way? That way, the bolt holding the rotor on won't come loose as it gets hard to spin.


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1978 Honda CB550K

[calj737]

Take a 1x6 and lay it flat across the fins from 1-4. Using a rubber mallet rap the wood a few times in the front and rear of the cylinders. Just go easy and work back and forth and perhaps gently on the sides. Some "shock" should help release the jugs. Do not get carried away!

Add some heat at the seam, as the PO likely used some adhesive/sealant there and now you're dealing with it.

By the way, did you get the sheared bolt out? It too can be holding you up- if not, drop the motor by a machine shop and let them extract that bolt.

[DaveBarbier]

Take a 1x6 and lay it flat across the fins from 1-4. Using a rubber mallet rap the wood a few times in the front and rear of the cylinders. Just go easy and work back and forth and perhaps gently on the sides. Some "shock" should help release the jugs. Do not get carried away!

Add some heat at the seam, as the PO likely used some adhesive/sealant there and now you're dealing with it.

By the way, did you get the sheared bolt out? It too can be holding you up- if not, drop the motor by a machine shop and let them extract that bolt.

I'll try the wood with a mallet again. I used a 2x4, maybe a 1x6 will be better, ha. And I'll hit the seam with more propane. I did that last night for about 15 minutes and then hit the cylinders with the wood/mallet combo. Didn't seem to do anything. But patience and perseverance are key in this instance.

The two bolts are still inside. One who's threads are just in the case and the other which is about half an inch down from the top of the cylinders. And just by looking down at it I can tell it's super rusted. I have a feeling that one is keeping the head on along with the gasket. I was planning on dropping it off somewhere after I took the cylinders off, but maybe best to have the pros do it first.


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1978 Honda CB550K