Topic: Logan's Reward - CB500 and CB550 Cafe Projects

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

That's pretty slick.  I've heard that the guys who make a business of it have tools that look like overgrown dental instruments.

[Restoration Fan]

Coaching baseball has been taking up so much time lately that I haven't been able to do a whole lot to the 500 or the 550.  On nights when I haven't had baseball (not very many of those), I've been working on the tank for the 500.  I bought some front forks for the 500 off eBay and they are flawless.  I'm intending to paint the lowers but I almost hate to do that with these because they're in such good shape.  I bought them for $69 and there were spots showing in the photos on the lowers...I figured I could clean them up and paint them but when I received the forks, the spots were nothing but dirt and oil.  A few minutes with parts cleaner and they look gorgeous.

Also, I did make a deal with Bill yesterday for the front end for Logan's 550.  I'll be using the entire front end of a CBR1000RR as the front end for Logan's 550 bike.  Now I'm trying to contact a guy on CraigsList who has the rear wheel for a CBR600RR listed that matches this one.  It shows a rear rotor so I'm planning to get a rear master cylinder mounted for it so that we can run front and rear disk brakes on this bike.  Should help with the stopping significantly.
Pictures below:

[Restoration Fan]

What swing arm are you planning, Ron?

I have a stock 550 swing arm but until I actually get that 600RR wheel and see how wide it is, I don't know if I can use that one or not.  I welcome any suggestions on that though.

The 500, which is the first build, will be using stock rims, forks and swingarm.

[Restoration Fan]

It may be wide enough, but the axle diameter may be larger. Also, there's no provision for a disc brake connection, so you'll need to fabricate something.

Two options: use the 600 swing arm (probably need to shave the pivot tube area, or, investigate the 750ss swing arm that uses a disc brake. Already may have the attachments and spacing you need on the right side. Perhaps Bill has one lying about for you to evaluate?

Bill does have some 750SS swing arms and some rear master cylinders.  That may be the simplest solution.

[Tews19]

The 750F rear wheel from what I have been told is a tank.

[Stev-o]

It may be wide enough, but the axle diameter may be larger. Also, there's no provision for a disc brake connection, so you'll need to fabricate something.

Two options: use the 600 swing arm (probably need to shave the pivot tube area, or, investigate the 750ss swing arm that uses a disc brake. Already may have the attachments and spacing you need on the right side. Perhaps Bill has one lying about for you to evaluate?

Bill does have some 750SS swing arms and some rear master cylinders.  That may be the simplest solution.

I have a 750 F swing arm that you can have for shipping if you choose.

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

It may be wide enough, but the axle diameter may be larger. Also, there's no provision for a disc brake connection, so you'll need to fabricate something.

Two options: use the 600 swing arm (probably need to shave the pivot tube area, or, investigate the 750ss swing arm that uses a disc brake. Already may have the attachments and spacing you need on the right side. Perhaps Bill has one lying about for you to evaluate?

Bill does have some 750SS swing arms and some rear master cylinders.  That may be the simplest solution.

I have a 750 F swing arm that you can have for shipping if you choose.

That's a bargain. Free-fifty-free!
The F wheel is heavy compared to a modern wheel but you can lighten it by lacing it to an aluminum rim.

[Restoration Fan]

Baseball game got rained out today and the wife's plane had to make an emergency landing in Ireland, stranding her there for the day.  So I finally got some time to work on the bikes.

After removing the exhaust pipes and reinstalling them on Stella to fix an air leak on cylinder #2, she's sounding much better.  So I then decided to get some work done on the bikes for Logan.

Originally, I didn't have much plans for the 500 engine that came in the bike I bought from Bill.  Even though he said it was a low mileage engine, it was locked up and I wasn't sure I wanted to deal with that.  Well, I pulled the valve covers off and was amazed at how good the cam looked on this one.  Also the rocker arms look almost brand new so I began to think that maybe this engine was salvageable or at the very least, parts of it are.

Turns out everything from the head up on this engine is in fantastic shape.  Looks like it's just the rings that are frozen/rusted to the cylinders.  So there is now some Marvel Mystery Oil soaking in the cylinders for a few days.  If that doesn't do it, I'll throw in some ATF in there as well.  Once I'm able to break it loose, I'll decide what I'm going to do with this spare 500 engine.

Then I hooked up the battery to the good 500 engine and tested the starters I have.  The 500 engine that's going into the frame turned over and you could hear the compression in the cylinders (forgot to remove the spark plugs before I tested it).  That engine is currently being cleaned up and prepped for paint.  I have another 2 or 3 hours of good scrubbing/sanding/cleaning needed then it'll be ready for tape and paint prep. 

Handle bars are ordered and should be arriving this week.  I'm hoping to get the 500 engine painted and into the frame before I leave for Ft. Myers, FL with the baseball team next Friday.  I've already started cleaning the carbs and, assuming I can get the engine painted and in the frame this week, we might be able to hear this first one run by the end of July or early August.  I'll post some photos of the 500 engine once I've gotten it painted but for now, I'll just post some of the "spare" 500 that I'm rebuilding now.

Spare 500 Engine






I only took a photo of this head gasket because I was amazed that it was still in good shape.  With Stella, we had to scrape and scrape and soak and scape.  This one came off intact.

[Restoration Fan]

Ron - if the MMO doesn't release those rings, switch to Kroil. You can find it at some Home Centers, or always a firearms shop. You won't need nearly as much Kroil as you have MMO floating in those cylinders.

Or... Since you're already down to the block, slide her outside and pour some Kerosene into the cylinders, and touch her off with some heat. The fire will eat the rust, and won't damage the block or other parts at all (remove the rubber o-rings around the studs). Works a treat and should take all of about 15'-60' to get her rotating. Use a breaker bar on the stator side only to rotate the crank.

Ha.  I have thought of this photo you had posted in another thread a couple of times since yesterday morning, Cal.  I didn't know about Kroil though.  I'll go get some of that today.

One interesting thing about the MMO. It looks like cylinders 1 and 4 are the ones that are frozen because the amount of fluid in 2 and 3 has gone down quite a bit over night.  So either we have a very large rat with an appetite for MMO or there was enough of a gap between the piston rings for the fluid to seep down into the bottom end.

[AintNoEasyWay]

Very large rat with MMO appetite seems more plausible...

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

Ron,

Glad the wife landed safely. An emergency landing is thankfully a rare occurrence.

[Restoration Fan]

Ron,

Glad the wife landed safely. An emergency landing is thankfully a rare occurrence.

No kidding.  She was coming home from a short 4-day trip to Cairo, Egypt.  The plane received a warning light of a potential fire in the cargo area and they put down in Shannon, Ireland.  She was hoping to get home yesterday to spend some time with Logan before he leaves but she ended up not being able to make a connecting flight to Heathrow in time to circumvent the normal plane route.  Long story short, she is supposed to arrive today at 2 but Logan left a few minutes ago for a 10 day excursion to Costa Rica with his best friend's family.

I told her that I was really glad they landed safely because I haven't yet had a chance to up her life insurance policy like I had been planning to do.  I don't know why, but somehow she didn't find that as humorous as I did.  Go figure.   

[Stev-o]

Ron,

Glad the wife landed safely. An emergency landing is thankfully a rare occurrence.

No kidding.  She was coming home from a short 4-day trip to Cairo, Egypt.  The plane received a warning light of a potential fire in the cargo area and they put down in Shannon, Ireland.  She was hoping to get home yesterday to spend some time with Logan before he leaves but she ended up not being able to make a connecting flight to Heathrow in time to circumvent the normal plane route.  Long story short, she is supposed to arrive today at 2 but Logan left a few minutes ago for a 10 day excursion to Costa Rica with his best friend's family.

I told her that I was really glad they landed safely because I haven't yet had a chance to up her life insurance policy like I had been planning to do.  I don't know why, but somehow she didn't find that as humorous as I did.  Go figure.   

I think it's funny what our wives don't think is funny.  I mentioned once that I would buy a Ferrari with the insurance money if she died.  She was not amused!

On another note, I bet Logan will love Costa Rica.  I've been twice and both trips were fantastic, adventure filled, fun trips!

[Restoration Fan]

On another note, I bet Logan will love Costa Rica.  I've been twice and both trips were fantastic, adventure filled, fun trips!

I think he will, too.  Especially since they're staying in a 5,000 sq ft villa thats built into a tree on a beach and has a butler.  When I found that out, I told him I was going to stuff him in a closet and go in his place.

[Stev-o]

On another note, I bet Logan will love Costa Rica.  I've been twice and both trips were fantastic, adventure filled, fun trips!

I think he will, too.  Especially since they're staying in a 5,000 sq ft villa thats built into a tree on a beach and has a butler.  When I found that out, I told him I was going to stuff him in a closet and go in his place.

Sounds incredible!  Do you know what city or area? 

[Restoration Fan]

Sounds incredible!  Do you know what city or area?

All I know for sure is that they were flying into San Juan and staying at a Marriott tonight.  Tomorrow, the resort that contains the villa is sending cars to pick them up.  When I asked Logan where they were going in Costa Rica, he shrugged and said, "Costa Rica, Costa Rica".

Apparently it's somewhere close to the zip line they were saying is one of the world's longest because they're planning to go on that.

[Restoration Fan]

Got a few questions.  Has anyone ever used a swingarm from a 97 Honda CBR 600F3 on a 550?  I had the guy who had these parts listed on Craiglist measure the width of the swingarm and it APPEARS this will fit on Logan's 550.  I'm in Ft. Myers, FL for the next several days with the baseball team but I'm planning to meet the owner on Friday and bring my 550 frame to see if it will fit. 

One of the things about this swingarm and set up is this swingarm has a mono-shock (shown in 2 photos).  I also want to test and see if that eye will fit on the 550's shock bolt.  Has anyone done one of these conversions?

Shock - top


Shock - bottom


Swingarm






Also, might end up buying these 2 brand new tires from him as well.

[Stev-o]

Don't know about the swingarm but check the date code on the tires. I'd pass if over 4-5 years old.

[Restoration Fan]

Thanks, Cal.  I like the look of this 600 rear end.  Combine it with the front end from the CBR1000RR I got from Bill and it has the potential to be a nice looking bike if I get the paint, polishing, seat and tank right. 

This is for the second bike though.  First order of business when I get back is to paint the 500 engine and get it in the frame. 

Of course I just found out that I get back Thursday from south Florida and we will drive back down to Amelia Island next weekend for a family vacation for a week.  All this travel is messing up my wrenching time.

[Retro Rocket]

Its quite easy to make any swingarm fit , its also easy to have some width machined off the sprocket carrier to help with chain alignment, there's usually plenty of room to do this, I've done it on a GSXR swingarm.  The problem with stock monoshock swing arms is that they are all far too long, I have a GSXR1100 swingarm in a 750/4 {F1} frame , I had the monoshock section removed and the arm shortened, it was around 6 inches longer than stock, this completely changes the way the bike handles for the worse, it also defeats the purpose of putting a modern front on, A modern front end,  if set up properly, will dramatically improve handling, whilst the extra long rear will slow down steering response at the rear and make the bike handle like a pig. I also have a gs1100 alloy arm, which is a twin shock arm, currently its around 3.5 inches too long, I'm having that shortened at the pivot end in the near future..  Just saying, if you want or expect the bike to handle as good or better than stock then what I've outlined here is whats needed, if you are just building it for looks then ignore what i've said, remember also, a longer swingarm also changes the wheels relation ship to the rear guard as well, so sometimes, no matter what you intend to do, there will be need for modification....

[Restoration Fan]

Its quite easy to make any swingarm fit , its also easy to have some width machined off the sprocket carrier to help with chain alignment, there's usually plenty of room to do this, I've done it on a GSXR swingarm.  The problem with stock monoshock swing arms is that they are all far too long, I have a GSXR1100 swingarm in a 750/4 {F1} frame , I had the monoshock section removed and the arm shortened, it was around 6 inches longer than stock, this completely changes the way the bike handles for the worse, it also defeats the purpose of putting a modern front on, A modern front end,  if set up properly, will dramatically improve handling, whilst the extra long rear will slow down steering response at the rear and make the bike handle like a pig. I also have a gs1100 alloy arm, which is a twin shock arm, currently its around 3.5 inches too long, I'm having that shortened at the pivot end in the near future..  Just saying, if you want or expect the bike to handle as good or better than stock then what I've outlined here is whats needed, if you are just building it for looks then ignore what i've said, remember also, a longer swingarm also changes the wheels relation ship to the rear guard as well, so sometimes, no matter what you intend to do, there will be need for modification....

No, if it's my son riding it, I want it to handle well.  So how do you shorten it?  Have them cut a section out of the middle and weld it back?  I would think you wouldn't want to mess either end because you have the pivot bolt going through the front end and you have the rear axle going through the other end.

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

I think you could section the length of the swingarm closer to the tail.  You would want to reinforce the arm where it is sectioned, however, to preserve structural integrity, lest it fold in half at the section joint.  You could reinforce it by welding an outer sleeve at the joining point.

[Retro Rocket]

Its quite easy to make any swingarm fit , its also easy to have some width machined off the sprocket carrier to help with chain alignment, there's usually plenty of room to do this, I've done it on a GSXR swingarm.  The problem with stock monoshock swing arms is that they are all far too long, I have a GSXR1100 swingarm in a 750/4 {F1} frame , I had the monoshock section removed and the arm shortened, it was around 6 inches longer than stock, this completely changes the way the bike handles for the worse, it also defeats the purpose of putting a modern front on, A modern front end,  if set up properly, will dramatically improve handling, whilst the extra long rear will slow down steering response at the rear and make the bike handle like a pig. I also have a gs1100 alloy arm, which is a twin shock arm, currently its around 3.5 inches too long, I'm having that shortened at the pivot end in the near future..  Just saying, if you want or expect the bike to handle as good or better than stock then what I've outlined here is whats needed, if you are just building it for looks then ignore what i've said, remember also, a longer swingarm also changes the wheels relation ship to the rear guard as well, so sometimes, no matter what you intend to do, there will be need for modification....

No, if it's my son riding it, I want it to handle well.  So how do you shorten it?  Have them cut a section out of the middle and weld it back?  I would think you wouldn't want to mess either end because you have the pivot bolt going through the front end and you have the rear axle going through the other end.

With my GS1100 arm, I am having the pivot section removed and shortened at that end, the GSXR1100J arm, I had shortened at the rear end and new slots milled in for the axle , it really depends on the swingarm being used, and it will cost a bit to have it done well. MotoGPwerks have really nice Calfab alloy swingarms made for our bikes, {not cheap but beautiful}, I have one here for the 750 but they are made for the 500/550 as well. Personally, I would never cut and shut a swingarm in the middle, I would never trust it again.. .  There's a little bit more to building a special than just bolting on cool parts, all motorcycles are designed to handle as a complete unit, any modification to either front or back, will effect how the bike handles, some simple modifications, especially on the front end, can have quite dire consequences, reducing rake and trail, without knowing why it all works, can make a good bike a dangerous pile of parts, not trying to alarm you here, but theres a bit more to modifying a bike if you want it to perform properly...
 Here is the motogpwerks swingarm..

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/HONDA-CB550K-CB500-ALLOY-SWINGARM-RSD-CALFAB-USA-AHM-CAL-FAB-RACE-/111707075149

[Retro Rocket]

Ron - just measure the CBR swing arm from pivot bolt to start of axle slot and compare that to the stock 550. You can use a rake/trail calculator to compare the new modern changes front and rear coupled with 17" tires to determine your final geometry. I don't think you'll be far off from a desirable setup.

Someone here already had a CBR600 swingarm , I can't remember exactly, but I think  it was around 3-4 inches longer from memory..?
My point was that this isn't a simple bolt on accessory, changes will have to be made, or custom parts used to achieve proper geometry...

[Restoration Fan]

Well, not necessarily.  Going to 17 inch tires front and back when the original bike had 19 and 18 will definitely change the geometry already anyway.