Topic: Current thinking on steering head: taper roller (x2) vs taper roller + balls

[Boatbiker]

In reading up on installing taper roller bearings in my steering head, I see lots of recs for All Balls kits, with caveats to be very careful installing them. I found useful threads with links to instructions, and general satisfaction with the kits.
I also found an interesting recommendation by following a link (by SteveD CB500F) in the FAQs, to the site of one SteveB:(http://www.stephenbottcher.net/Honda/tapered.htm).  Here he refers to a suggestion by Rick Highman that to avoid a potential problem with a gap at the top of the steering head after installing taper roller bearings (initially thought to be due to adding a washer for clearance at the bottom), one should really use a taper roller bearing at the bottom of the steering head, but a Honda standard ball bearing/race at the top.  Rick says this:

The problem had nothing to do with the 4mm washer under the lower bearing & everything to do with the top bearing race. You need the 4mm washer under the bottom bearing to give adequate clearance for the steering lock.The position you have in your pic of the lower triple clamp as it is pushed up in the steering head is correct,as the steering lock tangs on either side of the locking plate at the bottom of the steering head in the frame are sitting flush. The problem you have is the top race is not sitting down flush with the top of the steering head in the frame because the machined receiver that accepted the old race is not the same depth as the the new top race. Honda never machined the top of the steering head deep enough because they didn't have to. The manufacturers of the replacement tapered bearings have not allowed this & have made the top outer race too wide & this is why it sits above the top of the frame by 3-4mm (see the picture below) when driven down as far as the receiver recess will allow.
The only way to fix this problem is to use a tapered bearing on the bottom & a new original replacement Honda ball bearing on the top.This will work fine because the main load will be carried by the tapered roller bearing on the bottom.The top ball bearing is only used to centralize the top fork bridge.

So I am considering buying the All Balls taper roller kit, but should I consider getting the honda set to, and doing as Rick, and ultimately SteveB too, suggest?

[scottly]

Tapered bearings should not be mixed with ball bearings; they have different pre-load requirements.

[Boatbiker]

Thanks Scottly - just so I understand (I am brand new to this), the problem would be with the torquing of the top nut, ultimately, because the roller taper bearing would want it to be either tighter or looser than the ball bearing at the top - which of course it cant be?  Is that right?

[BomberMann650]

Thanks Scottly - just so I understand (I am brand new to this), the problem would be with the torquing of the top nut, ultimately, because the roller taper bearing would want it to be either tighter or looser than the ball bearing at the top - which of course it cant be?  Is that right?

There is a spanner wrench cap that sets the bearing pressure.  Top nut holds the triple tree against that.

[madmtnmotors]

How many millions of miles are you planning to ride this bike? How big of a "gap" are we talking about? I use tapered bearings and do not even notice a gap so we can't be talking about much. Are you doing a concourse restoration and afraid of losing points at the show because of some "gap"? The stock ball bearings work fine, just keep them lubed and adjusted if you are going to stress over some micro gap created by tapered bearings. Use tapered bearings if you want to extend the service life of the steering bearings, just be sure to lube and adjust those regularly too.

Bottom line: They both work fine. I would not "mix-n-match". Pick one you can live with and move on to the next task. 

[ekpent]

Usually its the original races that go bad not the ball bearings so if you have a notchiness check those. If not you may be good to go with a clean and repack. Have a towel or something laying down when they start falling out so you don't lose any--- 

[NobleHops]

A bearing shop will also sell replacement balls.

[ekpent]

A bearing shop will also sell replacement balls.

My wife is out the door and on her way !!   

[NobleHops]

A bearing shop will also sell replacement balls.

My wife is out the door and on her way !!   

Will she keep custody of them? :-)

[scottly]

Thanks Scottly - just so I understand (I am brand new to this), the problem would be with the torquing of the top nut, ultimately, because the roller taper bearing would want it to be either tighter or looser than the ball bearing at the top - which of course it cant be?  Is that right?

Tapered bearings require less pre-load than balls, so there is no correct tightness when they are mixed.
Regarding the gap in the headlight ears, the top tapered bearing assembly is .039"(1mm) taller than the stock ball bearing assembly, so that alone wouldn't cause a 3-4mm gap. Do not use the All-balls upper spacer or seal, as this will increase the gap. (The stock setup did not use an upper seal.)
The spacer and seal under the lower tapered bearing should total .125" to retain the stock bottom triple location relative to the steering head; a .157"(4mm) spacer plus the thickness of the lower seal would increase the gap even more. If you could fit a spacer and seal with a thickness of .086" under the lower bearing, without the bottom triple hitting the frame, it would offset the taller upper bearing, and have the same lower to upper triple spacing as stock.