Topic: Any car audio experts out there?

[Stev-o]

Looking to upgrade the stock stereo system in my Nissan and could use some recommendations.

Thinking Pioneer HU, Kenwood amp and Rockford speakers.

Looking for a pro with real world experience, not my brothers wife's boyfriend of the niece said     "These are killer, Dude?!" Ha!

Got a killer sound system? What is it?!! 

Thanks

[flybox1]

Sorry.  Couldnt resist   

[BomberMann650]

I did concert sound systems does that count?

Pioneer head and kenwood amp are solid.  But If you want nuance vs beastial power handling, go fo infinity reference speakers.

A multiband equalizer for the amp can help.  Generic three band eq's don't allow to fine tune any defeciency or offenses in the cabin's acoustic space.

Might as well get a sub.  Even a small sub will help reinforce the lows and extend the life of your full range speakers.

[madmtnmotors]

It's mainly matching up the speakers with the amp. Be sure to wire things up per the amp manufacturer's directions. Are you looking for full range sound? Full range speakers with a separate sub-woofer? Make sure the speaker(s) ohms resistance and power handling capacity match the amp requirements. Advertised amp power output is usually representative of "bridged" (mono) mode driving a single sub woofer. If you use the amp to drive two separate speakers you are splitting the output between two channels and the max amps are cut in half. Many amps power output is cut in half if configured to drive two channels (right and left) and this half power output is then split in half again (half to the right and half to the left) so each channel is receiving about 25% of the amps "total" power rating. Read up on the amps you are considering. Once you have decided on an amp then that will determine the appropriate speaker. Most head units have the low level outputs for input to the amp and I've grown partial to the "mechless" digital only head units. No tape, no CD, just a tuner and a means for digital input. I usually go for something that has a front 1/8" AX input, USB, and an SD card slot. I'll cram an SD card full of digital music, and crank it up!

I had a 1000W Sony amp with a Pioneer HU in my little Toyota Pickup driving two 12" full range cones hanging from the front of the topper, each within its own enclosure. I would have to close the pass through window half way (or more) to keep my ears from bleeding...     

[innovativems]

Back in the prime car audio days, i was an installer and ran my own shop for a couple years.  Rockford used to be my go to back in the punch power days.  Honestly their stuff still is alright but isn't what is used to be.  One thing you left out is, are you going for sq? db? and your budget.  JL has been my go to for quite some time.  If you have a larger budget, Zapco, MB Quartz, Image Dynamics, and Focal are amazing.  Hope this helps.

[BomberMann650]

+1 to focal - their pro audio series are outstanding.  Bunch of audiophiles those focal designers.

[Stev-o]

Sorry.  Couldnt resist   

Wouldnt expect less from you Fly! Thanks, that was good...

I did concert sound systems does that count?

Absolutely!   

It's mainly matching up the speakers with the amp.

Yes, will make sure they match up.  I'd like to add a sub too, but need to find room for it.  Dont really want to lose my spare tire like I did in my S2000.

Back in the prime car audio days, i was an installer and ran my own shop for a couple years.  Rockford used to be my go to back in the punch power days.  Honestly their stuff still is alright but isn't what is used to be.  One thing you left out is, are you going for sq? db? and your budget.  JL has been my go to for quite some time.  If you have a larger budget, Zapco, MB Quartz, Image Dynamics, and Focal are amazing.  Hope this helps.

Yes, very helpful thanks.  I don't really have a budget, but dont want to spend crazy money. Most of the components I've been looking at are pretty reasonable.

Keep the info coming, guys....

[BomberMann650]

The eight and ten inch powered "truck" subwoofers from jbl (and others) offer good reinforcement and don't take up much real estate.  Some fit neatly under seats so you can "feel it" without rattling the body panels off.

As for ohm matching....i've been known to fudge ohms law every once in a while. 
Its perfectly acceptable to run an 8ohm amp into a 4ohm speaker.  The speaker, being of less resistance, will actually ease the burden on the amplifier output.  Commerical reinforcement systems sometimes display the effect on wattage output in big white letters so us nerds can calculate our headroom/gain before feedback.  (Or decide on series or parallel wiring for array systems but that does not apply here.

More wattage (wether resistance matched or ohms fudged) will increase clarity of the sound being reproduced.  Rule of thumb, amp output 3x or 4x greater than speakers rms handling.  i.e.  25watt speaker gets 75 or 100 watt amp (per speaker).

But what you can't do is run a 16ohm speaker on an 8 ohm amp.  The speaker will simply refuse to accept the wattage being fed to it.  End result, heat among the amp circuits and eventual failure.  I accidentally did that with a yamaha natural sound amp and my pioneer 905 hifi speakers.  Never damaged anything, but the tone sucked.  Got an alesis rack amp with matched ohms and things sounded much better.  A higher wattage amp, or higher ohm rated amp would also bring the thunder.  But I digress.

If you see something in particular that you think you want, share it up!

[madmtnmotors]

What you can't do is run a 16ohm speaker on an 8 ohm amp.  The speaker will simply refuse to accept the wattage being fed to it.  End result, heat among the amp circuits and eventual failure.

That has been my observation as well. Documentation is usually pretty clear to not use a speaker with a higher ohm rating than the amp output is designed for.

A higher wattage amp, or higher ohm rated amp would also bring the thunder.

There's no replacement for displacement! 

[Stev-o]

Ok, I have a list of possiblities...

HU:

Sony
https://www.amazon.com/Sony-WX900BT-Receiver-Bluetooth-Black/dp/B01BKC10OG/ref=sr_1_6?s=car&ie=UTF8&qid=1484966162&sr=1-6&refinements=p_n_feature_keywords_browse-bin%3A3414586011

Pioneer
https://www.amazon.com/Pioneer-FH-X730BS-Vehicle-Digital-Receivers/dp/B01FKW6CIQ/ref=sr_1_7?s=car&ie=UTF8&qid=1484966581&sr=1-7&refinements=p_n_feature_keywords_browse-bin%3A3414586011

Kenwood
https://www.amazon.com/Kenwood-DPX592BT-Double-DIN-Compatibility-iHeartRadio/dp/B01A3N8OLK/ref=sr_1_14?s=car&ie=UTF8&qid=1484966581&sr=1-14&refinements=p_n_feature_keywords_browse-bin%3A3414586011

Amp:

Kenwood
https://www.amazon.com/Kenwood-Compact-Automotive-Marine-Amplifier/dp/B00UTXQL74/ref=sr_1_2?s=car&ie=UTF8&qid=1484966761&sr=1-2&keywords=compact+amp

Alpine
https://www.amazon.com/Alpine-KTP-445U-4-channel-Power-Amplifier/dp/B003VVYL46/ref=sr_1_4?s=car&ie=UTF8&qid=1484966761&sr=1-4&keywords=compact+amp

JL Audio
https://www.amazon.com/JL-Audio-MHX280-Compact-Amplifier/dp/B012ZNKQHQ/ref=sr_1_1?s=car&ie=UTF8&qid=1484967154&sr=1-1&keywords=compact+amp+jl+audio

Speakers:

MB Quart
https://www.amazon.com/MB-Quart-XC1-216-Component-Speaker/dp/B018Y7LSN8/ref=sr_1_4?s=car&ie=UTF8&qid=1484967360&sr=1-4&keywords=mb+quart+6.5

JBL
https://www.amazon.com/JBL-6500c-Component-Speaker-System/dp/B01KW1F4GQ/ref=sr_1_20?s=car&ie=UTF8&qid=1484967455&sr=1-20&keywords=jbl+6.5

Alpine
https://www.amazon.com/Alpine-SPR-60C-Audio-Component-System/dp/B004VBIEZW/ref=pd_sbs_107_5?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=0Z5TYF5G015RVFWF5SZV

Sat radio tuner
https://www.amazon.com/SiriusXM-SXV300v1-Connect-Vehicle-Satellite/dp/B00NJTO4CY/ref=sr_1_cc_1?s=aps&ie=UTF8&qid=1484967834&sr=1-1-catcorr&keywords=sirius+xm+tuner+car''

I'm going to hold off on the sub for now.  But, I'll get the 4 channel amp so it can be connected later.

Ok, opinions please!

[goldarrow]

At one point in my life I had a set up consist of alpine head (no built-in power amp) 1 McIntosh amp to drive 4 mbquarts 2-way speakers, 1 Phoenix gold amp to drive 12" sub in sealed box. Like the set up, the car was long gone but amps are sitting deep in the garage somewhere

[Stev-o]

Ok, after a short roadtrip yesterday, I want to get this system upgraded soon!

We were out the other night and the wifey suggested we check out Bestbuy, just to shop.
What a waste of time, once we went to the back in the car audio dept, noone was there to help. Saw a couple employees in the appliance dept just standing around, asked them for help. No help from them but they said the home theater guys could help. 5-10 min later a young kid shows up, I ask him for some suggestions for un upgrade, he says "I can make an appt for you". For what?? I dont even know what I want yet.  There selection was very limitied, only 1 pair of component speakers, made by JBL [sounded good when amplified].  Bottom line, I will never go there again!

Ok, I'm down to this:

HU:

Pioneer FH-X730BS or Sony WX900BT   Sony is only 17W RMS, not sure about Pioneer?

Amp:

Kenwood KAC-M1804  or  Alpine KTP-445U

Speakers:

MB Quart ZC1-216  or   Alpine SPR-60C


Any opinions??

[BomberMann650]

Amazon doesn't really get nerdy explaining hu features.  Need to see a full book on those to make a more informed decision.  (Fwiw, a multiband eq is a huge selling point for me)
I remember my old sony had 7 band eq and adjustable crossover/phase for the sub control.  I loved that hu.

None of those amps are gonna push those mb quart speakers.  90w rms with a higher peak rating, those mb's are power hungry!  A weaker amp will just turn to distorted noise if you try to push it at all.
1200 watt 4 channel amp minimum.  1500 or 2000 would put the mb quarts in the sweet spot. 

The alpine type R's are even hungrier, still more amp required.

What kind of car do you have?

[Stev-o]

Amazon doesn't really get nerdy explaining hu features.

No, they dont.  I plan to chat with Crutchfield

None of those amps are gonna push those mb quart speakers.  90w rms with a higher peak rating, those mb's are power hungry!  A weaker amp will just turn to distorted noise if you try to push it at all.
1200 watt 4 channel amp minimum.  1500 or 2000 would put the mb quarts in the sweet spot. 

Ok, good info, thanks.  I need small to fit under the passenger seat. Need to measure.

The alpine type R's are even hungrier, still more amp required.

What kind of car do you have?

Nissan 370Z

[BomberMann650]

Hmmmm....370z.   Nice ride. 

Unfortunately i've never been inside of one.   

I'm interested in knowing a few things about the radio you currently have.  What is it?  Have you already modified anything?  Have you adjusted anything about the factory stereo to make you more satisfied with the tone?  How does the system sound when zero'd out to factory settings?

These are baseline questions that can help choose your future speaker.

Acoustic design in car cabins is a pita.

[Dunk]

I just got some new audio equipment for my daily driver truck. Alpine CDE-164BT head unit, KTP-445U amp, SPR-60 speakers (coaxial, not component). I replaced the door speakers this past weekend (had to enlarge holes and misc fitment issues) and ran new 14ga wire to the speakers. That's as far as I got before I ran out of time and motivation, and I didn't have the amp yet. It already sounds significantly better through the old Pioneer head unit than the Pioneer TS-G1643R speakers I pulled out. Factory wiring was small and had two splices on each end (all twisted and taped) for the Pioneer setup. Highs are much crisped and more pronounced, overall sounds cleaner and notes more distinct. I'll let you know what I think once I get the rest installed.

Hopefully this weekend I'll get to installing the new head unit and amp so it should get better. It's a mini class D amp, so not expecting anything great but should be plenty for what I want... Decent quality and volume for a loud old diesel pickup on the highway with all the windows down.

In my other truck I have an older Alpine head unit direct to the older style Type R 6.5" speakers and that sounds pretty good to my ears but on the highway with windows down, big block screaming, and mud tires singing it's not quite enough. In my boat I have a newer cheap Alpine head unit with maybe pioneer speakers and it's fine. My car has a very old Alpine head unit with some compact 3 cheapie 3 way speakers under the seat.

I'm not exactly picky, but I do research my purchases and believe Alpine is good quality and tend to stick with their head units at least for quality and a consistent or similar interface.

[Stev-o]

Thanks for posting, Dunk, some good info.  I'm still researching and have added a JVC head unit to my list. 
I'm thinking Alpine component speakers but I'm stuck on what amp to get and where to mount it.
Some say guys with 370's have mounted it under the passenger seat.  So I'm considering that, I'll rely if ever sit there, so shouldn't be an issue as long as it doesn't overheat.  Need to measure....

[greenjeans]

Is THD (total harmonic distortion) a thing anymore?   I typically trust the installers word.  One thing that really has stuck with me over the years is the wattage of the amps and the distortion they put out.    I had always assumed that MORE WATTAGE is better.    Had a guy at the stereo shop, that is no longer here, hammer into my head that the most important thing is the THD number of the amp.  I have some old CerwinVega D3 speakers that I put a new amp with.  Made them sound new.  I was truly bown away.  The amp was a much lower wattage that what I previously had.  Obviously the quality came into play, but the old one wasn't a $99 amp.  Both were Yamaha amps.  One was .09% THD and the other was .009%.   It still boggles my mind that there was a noticeable difference in the sound.  To me, it just didn't seem possible.
My high school ride was an old RX-7 and the amp in it was only 32 watts.  JBL.   Alpine speakers (as much as I could afford at the time) and a small sub.  Always impressed me with the sound it was able to put out - granted, old RX-7s are pretty tiny.

[BomberMann650]

Afaik thd is still a thing.  But understood that is a measurement taken at MAX output.
Ergo, lower wattage amps = more thd sooner than hi wattage units.

[Stev-o]

FYI - I've put this on the back burner til next month.  Too busy at work and have started my H2 project.

But pretty much decide I will go with the JVC HU and Alpine speakers.

GJ - I also had an RX-7, was a '90 convertible model. Nice handling car but the wankel was a wanker! [no power]. Sold it on eBay and bought a Honda S2000, now talk about a great motor...

[Stev-o]

Decided to go with Pioneer X7 730Bs HU, Alpine KTP-445U amp and Alpine SPR-60C component speakers.

Installing this week....

[Nathanlelry]

@BomberMann650 do you have experience with Pioneer HUs? Would you recommend them?

Sorry for being off topic. Maybe you can help me. I'm on a quest for a new stereo. I've been reading reviews about Pioneer stereos but they are useless hype. It's beyond me why people are doing it.

This head unit landed on my short list AVH-1550NEX. From all the blogs that I've read one stood out. The blogger was hyper critical about Pioneer and put me on the fence. The AVH-1550NEX receiver review was OK until I've reached the shortcomings section.

How hard is to install these units anyways? What about that radio lag? Is it that bad?

All tips are welcomed

[BomberMann650]

@BomberMann650 do you have experience with Pioneer HUs? Would you recommend them?

Sorry for being off topic. Maybe you can help me. I'm on a quest for a new stereo. I've been reading reviews about Pioneer stereos but they are useless hype. It's beyond me why people are doing it.

This head unit landed on my short list AVH-1550NEX. From all the blogs that I've read one stood out. The blogger was hyper critical about Pioneer and put me on the fence. The AVH-1550NEX receiver review was OK until I've reached the shortcomings section.

How hard is to install these units anyways? What about that radio lag? Is it that bad?

All tips are welcomed

That's a lot of features for under $300.  Looking through the user manual rattled off a ton of options that some cars/people simply don't have or use. 

Goes to show how far technology has come.

They don't mention how the amp makes power (can probably assume mosfet circuits) but it does state 4ohm speakers as the spec.  Which is important if you want top audio quality from it.

Installation can be as simple or complicated as you want to make it.
Usually, there is a wiring harness adapter to connect the automotive dsub blocks to the aftermarket stereo. 
That may or may not connect 90% of the goods.
I say 90% because your car may or may not have features the radio is compatible with.  And there are possibility for aftermarket component stereo accessories.

[Stev-o]

Decided to go with Pioneer X7 730Bs HU, Alpine KTP-445U amp and Alpine SPR-60C component speakers.

Installing this week....

Update....still very happy with the system even though the CD player stopped working a couple months ago.

No worries, we usually stream these days anyway.

[Tracksnblades1]

If you come way of a Chevy Cavalier, I can show you how to mount 2 -15inch competition subs in the rear seat back/truck partition. Big old Alpine amps for each sub with an 8d battery (in place of caps) in trunk. Complete with welder 2/0 cable running to battery up front. The rear deck will have to be sealed from trunk because the woofers and mid range speakers will be turned inside out when the subs hit. The back window will eventually come loose and will need reinstalled. Shooters hearing protection will be required.

Nephew's car, my old stuff....Old alpine amps still working but are in box on shelf.  Subs’ suspensions failed long ago.... Nephew still brings up “Remember when we............”.