Author Topic: UK National Health Care  (Read 10126 times)

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Offline BobbyR

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Re: UK National Health Care
« Reply #75 on: July 26, 2010, 09:43:31 AM »
And taking into account the fact that one could not come close to surviving on $7.25/hr (federal minimum wage) in New York state...  And yet I know plenty of people who are doing it right here in Clarksville, TN.  With a wife and a child, no less.

Hooray for living in the Poor South.  Just remember that there are red, white and blue-blooded Americans living down here, too.  We just do it at a more relaxed pace than everyone else  ;D
Oh there are people living $7.25 per hr just not in this part of the State.
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Offline Duke McDukiedook

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Re: UK National Health Care
« Reply #76 on: July 26, 2010, 10:21:29 AM »


How do you feel about euthanasia - I mean, for those who planned poorly?
[/quote]

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Offline edbikerii

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Re: UK National Health Care
« Reply #77 on: July 26, 2010, 10:59:42 AM »
I'm not "fearmongering" -- those are facts.  The Canadian government's website posted those statistics on massive delays.  I've NEVER waited for a CT or an MRI.  I go to the doctor, they give me a prescription, I walk over to the radiology center, they do the test, the results are sent to my doctor, the insurance company pays the bill.  Yeah, it really is that simple.

Right, so now we should allow the deadbeat, lazy bastards to mug us for our tax money out of fear of "crime rates" increasing?  BULL#$%*!  Sorry, that's fearmongering.  When the liberal democrats finally succeed in their fearmongering quest to take away our right to protect ourselves, then I'll worry about the crime rates.

Quote
Since you cannot dispute the facts that I posted directly from the Canadian government's web site, and you obviously don't want to even bother trying, then the best strategy for you is to ignore me, as my logic will ALWAYS kick your ass.

Compare your system to ours mate .....easy choice when you have one...you are just scaremongering.

Quote
+1 Problem is, the liberal democrats who control the education system, the welfare system and the tax system WANT to CREATE MORE LAZY BASTARDS so they can get their votes.

So you take away benifits for these people, and i agree that there are lazy people but there are also people that really need help, and you will have an even worse crime rate than you have now because people will do what ever they need to survive mate, your way will never work.

Quote
+1 Problem is, the liberal democrats

Do you guys need labels to make you feel good...?

Quote
If you get cancer it is a personal problem not a government problem

You think? , we have a prevalence of new cancers that are a direct result of what companies are doing to our food and our environment, who is responsible for that...?  I love the way you guys try and simplify things to suit you own agenda's,maybe you lot should have been politicians.... ::)


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Offline ryder60

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Re: UK National Health Care
« Reply #78 on: July 26, 2010, 09:51:28 PM »
edited for space
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Ed I went to the site you have referred to and while I did not sit and study the heck out of it I didn't come away with the impression you have.  You also need to consider that all medical conditions are evaluated for severity.  If someone needs care they don't wait, they are treated immediately.

These figures are off the graphs.

58% of folks have access to diagnostic services w/in one month
30% between 1 + 3 months
12%  in 3 months plus

50% see a specialist w/in one month
40% 1-3 months
10% 3 months plus

41% get non-emerg surgery w/in one month
40% 1-3 months
19% 3 months plus

When surveyed, 85.2% very satisfied w/ health care

90% satisfied w/ physician

80% satisfied w/ hospital service

81% satisfied w/ community health

We wait 2 weeks for an MRI, CT scan or angiography. (as I mentioned above, those who need it get a service immediately)

At the same time 80% of Canadians want it improved.  We are a complaining lot.

To put in perspective your immediate service compared to a wait list:

If I went into my GP and he identified something needing intervention I would get it immediately.  If it was assessed at a 5 out of 10 I will likely wait a month for the intervention.  All patients are assessed for the severity of their condition and referrals are scheduled accordingly.

It is not reasonable to make a comparison between your insurance program and another program because your coverage is not available to 40-50% of your fellow citizens.  On the other hand, every Canadian resident is covered by our program and we do it for a smaller portion of our GDP than you do while you don't cover nearly 1/2 of your folks.

Your service works very well but too many people don't get any service until they go to Emerg. and that care costs you dearly.  You are already paying for it now and a health care reform will not now begin to make you liable to pay these costs.  You get great service and your doctor and other health care providers make a big profit and 1/2 of Americans go without.  That's a poor system.

But the review also pointed out that according international measurers our services rate about the same quality.




Offline BeSeeingYou

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Re: UK National Health Care
« Reply #79 on: July 26, 2010, 10:22:16 PM »
I get a kick out of all the American experts on the Canadian or UK health care system.  If you want to know something about it read what the folks who actually use it are saying, anyone else is talking out of his ass...hat. ;D

rhos1355

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Re: UK National Health Care
« Reply #80 on: July 27, 2010, 12:11:29 AM »


How do you feel about euthanasia - I mean, for those who planned poorly?

Soylent Green baby!!  :)
[/quote]

Showing your age, mate. :D :D

Excellent movie tho' and food for thought............well apart from the "Soylent Green is PEOPLE!" bit.

Offline Retro Rocket

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Re: UK National Health Care
« Reply #81 on: July 27, 2010, 12:37:57 AM »
I get a kick out of all the American experts on the Canadian or UK health care system.  If you want to know something about it read what the folks who actually use it are saying, anyone else is talking out of his ass...hat. ;D

You hit it on the head there Steve.

Quote
I've NEVER waited for a CT or an MRI.

Neither do i and i use the public system and have nothing but praise for the way i have been treated. I get to see my surgeons when i want to and my specialist, i even ring him if i have any queries and speak to him as needed, i know how busy these guys are so i choose not to do this very often, only if it is important. Remember Ed i spent 12 months in hospital and ended up having a transplant after having underlying problems for 20 years, in your country i would have been uninsurable , i also get my meds at the required dose and it is cheap, the US has the highest rate of transplant rejection caused by patients not being able to afford their meds so the use less, your government even makes criminals of the ones that source their meds from Canada if they are caught.....I know our system well mate and i know yours sucks.

Quote
Right, so now we should allow the deadbeat, lazy bastards to mug us for our tax money out of fear of "crime rates" increasing?  BULL#$%*!  Sorry, that's fearmongering.  When the liberal democrats finally succeed in their fearmongering quest to take away our right to protect ourselves, then I'll worry about the crime rates.

You really have yourself convinced Ed, take away their money and they will survive, its human instinct, you added "fear" into the equation. The more poor people your government creates the bigger the crime problem you will have, just look at every other country that operates like that. A healthier population is a more productive population .
Good to see that the added crime rate would have you worried Ed because it will happen if the right wing idiots get their own way........You would have to be the least compassionate poster on this forum mate and it makes me glad that the i live in a country that differs so much from yours and has a completely different outlook on the world and its people.   

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Offline seaweb11

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Re: UK National Health Care
« Reply #82 on: July 27, 2010, 01:45:07 AM »
My wife's younger Sister in Alabama needs open hart surgery on Friday.  Kathleen "my wife" is leaving day after tomorrow to help out while her sister is off her feet for 2 weeks.

50% Blocked main artery.   Her Sister Googled the hospital she is supposed to go to and found that it does not even have a rating  ::)  It only had a " a lot of people die here" rating".   The other Hospital in the state is "Birmingham"  Has a great rating!  It is 2 hours away and she isn't sure if she can make a decision on moving her operation to anther "better" rated hospital?

Thoughts on you US guys?  Can you move your operation outside of your immediate care hospital?

Offline edbikerii

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Re: UK National Health Care
« Reply #83 on: July 27, 2010, 04:16:28 AM »
Again, the same is true of you guys from Australia, Canada and the UK talking out of your asses since you have no experience with the US system.

The American insurance industry is the second most highly regulated industry in the world, second only to the banking industry.  We have long had protections for people with pre-existing conditions under HIPAA.

The only problems with our system are for people who don't have insurance, as the system is designed for people with insurance.  If you go to a doctor without insurance or "out of network" (no pre-negotiated rates), that doctor is not a slave to you, and he has the legal right to charge you whatever he feels his services are worth.  How many "uninsured" people bother to ask a doctor what the service will cost before they partake?

Now, I've gone over this a million times before here on this forum, but you guys only hear what you want to hear.  There is no "uninsured" problem here in the US.  If you are actually poor, you qualify for Medicaid.  If you earn a decent living, then you don't qualify for Medicaid, and you have a responsibility to take care of yourself and your family.  Unfortunately, too many people in this country choose to purchase big-screen TVs, new cars, McMansions, and motorcycles instead of taking care of their families.  Worse yet, because of the liberal education system, the liberal-biased media, the liberal government, many of the people are no longer capable of recognizing that they have a responsibility to do the right thing for their family without being a burden on their fellow man.

I get a kick out of all the American experts on the Canadian or UK health care system.  If you want to know something about it read what the folks who actually use it are saying, anyone else is talking out of his ass...hat. ;D

You hit it on the head there Steve.

Quote
I've NEVER waited for a CT or an MRI.

Neither do i and i use the public system and have nothing but praise for the way i have been treated. I get to see my surgeons when i want to and my specialist, i even ring him if i have any queries and speak to him as needed, i know how busy these guys are so i choose not to do this very often, only if it is important. Remember Ed i spent 12 months in hospital and ended up having a transplant after having underlying problems for 20 years, in your country i would have been uninsurable , i also get my meds at the required dose and it is cheap, the US has the highest rate of transplant rejection caused by patients not being able to afford their meds so the use less, your government even makes criminals of the ones that source their meds from Canada if they are caught.....I know our system well mate and i know yours sucks.

Quote
Right, so now we should allow the deadbeat, lazy bastards to mug us for our tax money out of fear of "crime rates" increasing?  BULL#$%*!  Sorry, that's fearmongering.  When the liberal democrats finally succeed in their fearmongering quest to take away our right to protect ourselves, then I'll worry about the crime rates.

You really have yourself convinced Ed, take away their money and they will survive, its human instinct, you added "fear" into the equation. The more poor people your government creates the bigger the crime problem you will have, just look at every other country that operates like that. A healthier population is a more productive population .
Good to see that the added crime rate would have you worried Ed because it will happen if the right wing idiots get their own way........You would have to be the least compassionate poster on this forum mate and it makes me glad that the i live in a country that differs so much from yours and has a completely different outlook on the world and its people.   

Mick


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Re: UK National Health Care
« Reply #84 on: July 27, 2010, 04:20:32 AM »
I could if I was willing to pay more out of pocket of the total expense. If I go where my insurance has a deal, I get the care for less.

So, basically, if you stay within the network of who your insurance made a deal with, you pay less. But, you still pay either way.

If you taxes go up to pay for national health care...that tax raise means you are paying.

~Joe

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Re: UK National Health Care
« Reply #85 on: July 27, 2010, 04:26:34 AM »

The American insurance industry is the second most highly regulated industry in the world, second only to the banking industry. 



Hahahahaha..........where've you been for the last couple of years??

And if that's what you call "regulated" begs the question whether you know the meaning of the word.

Offline edbikerii

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Re: UK National Health Care
« Reply #86 on: July 27, 2010, 04:39:36 AM »
I see you are now starting to understand my point.  Doesn't say much for government control, does it?


The American insurance industry is the second most highly regulated industry in the world, second only to the banking industry. 



Hahahahaha..........where've you been for the last couple of years??

And if that's what you call "regulated" begs the question whether you know the meaning of the word.
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Offline BobbyR

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Re: UK National Health Care
« Reply #87 on: July 27, 2010, 07:04:22 AM »
My wife's younger Sister in Alabama needs open hart surgery on Friday.  Kathleen "my wife" is leaving day after tomorrow to help out while her sister is off her feet for 2 weeks.

50% Blocked main artery.   Her Sister Googled the hospital she is supposed to go to and found that it does not even have a rating  ::)  It only had a " a lot of people die here" rating".   The other Hospital in the state is "Birmingham"  Has a great rating!  It is 2 hours away and she isn't sure if she can make a decision on moving her operation to anther "better" rated hospital?

Thoughts on you US guys?  Can you move your operation outside of your immediate care hospital?
The Ins Co does not really care where you are treated, they only care about the fee. If the Surgeon and Hospital accept that Insurance it makes no difference. She may have to go through the approval process again with the new Dr. and Hospital.

I would go to the better Hospital and get a a very good Surgeon. If you get one of these super bugs and it kills ya, it does not matter how good the Surgeon is.
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Offline 74cb750

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Re: UK National Health Care
« Reply #88 on: July 27, 2010, 01:07:56 PM »
Last week my wife & I stepped in either poison ivy or poison oak
cleaning up the neighborhood fishing pond area (for free of coarse).

I toughed it out by not scratching. She couldn't do it, so went to the
doctor. Doctor was busy so she saw an assistant and was told to buy
some over the counter spray. A 5 minute/less visit.

The bill was more $147.oo.
Socialized medicine would help me, as it is we're looking at loosing our house
due to being unemployed for over a year.
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Offline Frankenkit

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Re: UK National Health Care
« Reply #89 on: July 27, 2010, 01:21:02 PM »
If I owned a company right now, I would keep LESS workers, and require more of them.  There is ZERO incentive for an owner to hire more and spend more money.  

meanwhile, every day, more and more people give up working, and go on the dole.   As of yesterday, you can now go MORE THAN TWO YEARS WITHOUT WORKING....126 weeks of unemployment......who is paying the bill?   WHO????

Good thing there's:
 a) no incentive to hire more workers
b)people just opting to not work and collect unemployment while on "vacation"

I guess the answer is that we all go military. So as long as we can pass yearly physical requirements, we have a steady job we won't get fired from due to corporate downsizing/outsourcing AND we will have decent pension when we retire, IF we manage to survive our tour of service.

BTW, IF you can't get into the military due to preexisting physical issues (heart defects, type I diabetes, etc) you may not be able to find a job (no incentive to hire) AND you can be uninsurable. You can hope or pray that a family member feels like they should go military to cover you, but then you're still going to be in the government-run VA hospital system, which is just as good as having socialized healthcare (still paid for by taxpayers) anyway. Your treatment decisions will be based on taxpayer cost as well.  YAY! Good plan.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2010, 01:25:12 PM by Kit »
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Offline Duke McDukiedook

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Re: UK National Health Care
« Reply #90 on: July 27, 2010, 01:25:43 PM »
I get a kick out of all the American experts on the Canadian or UK health care system.  If you want to know something about it read what the folks who actually use it are saying, anyone else is talking out of his ass...hat. ;D

No #$%*, everyone I talked to from Canada or the UK likes the medical system they have for the most part- warts and all.

They have some minor quibbles but hey, no system by design is perfect.
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Offline Retro Rocket

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Re: UK National Health Care
« Reply #91 on: July 27, 2010, 04:35:16 PM »
Quote
Again, the same is true of you guys from Australia, Canada and the UK talking out of your asses since you have no experience with the US system.

Well once again Ed you are wrong. You see our media is no where near as stifled or one eyed as yours mate and i can guarantee you that most Australians would know more about America than you guys would know about us and possibly more about your country than a large number of its own people, did you read the Jay Leno thread?, and for your health system well my surgeons and specialist are at the forefront of transplant surgery world wide, director and deputy director of world transplant surgery at one stage. They are constantly traveling the world, especially my specialist, and a lot of the big meetings they go to are in the US. I have spoken at length with my specialist and on more than one occasion we discussed being lucky because of our system when compared to yours. How would i have been able to afford the ridiculous premiums your rip off insurance companies charge when i was too sick to work for years on and off. Explain who would insure me with a 20 year history of medical problems? Oh that were always going to lead to a transplant which by the way costs far more in your country than it does in ours, simply because of your broken system. I am extremely glad to have had no personal exposure to your system Ed and living in Australia will always make me feel more secure. Our system, while not perfect, is far more compassionate than yours.....

Mick
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traveler

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Re: UK National Health Care
« Reply #92 on: July 27, 2010, 05:49:25 PM »
If I owned a company right now, I would keep LESS workers, and require more of them.  There is ZERO incentive for an owner to hire more and spend more money.  

meanwhile, every day, more and more people give up working, and go on the dole.   As of yesterday, you can now go MORE THAN TWO YEARS WITHOUT WORKING....126 weeks of unemployment......who is paying the bill?   WHO????

Good thing there's:
 a) no incentive to hire more workers
b)people just opting to not work and collect unemployment while on "vacation"

I guess the answer is that we all go military. So as long as we can pass yearly physical requirements, we have a steady job we won't get fired from due to corporate downsizing/outsourcing AND we will have decent pension when we retire, IF we manage to survive our tour of service.

BTW, IF you can't get into the military due to preexisting physical issues (heart defects, type I diabetes, etc) you may not be able to find a job (no incentive to hire) AND you can be uninsurable. You can hope or pray that a family member feels like they should go military to cover you, but then you're still going to be in the government-run VA hospital system, which is just as good as having socialized healthcare (still paid for by taxpayers) anyway. Your treatment decisions will be based on taxpayer cost as well.  YAY! Good plan.

You didn't answer the question.....  Whose going to pay the bill?

Offline Frankenkit

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Re: UK National Health Care
« Reply #93 on: July 27, 2010, 10:05:48 PM »
In that situation, the taxpayers will always foot the bill, whether we're paying for vets' VA hospital treatment or the Emergency room visits of the homeless.
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Offline Retro Rocket

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Re: UK National Health Care
« Reply #94 on: July 27, 2010, 10:13:29 PM »
In that situation, the taxpayers will always foot the bill, whether we're paying for vets' VA hospital treatment or the Emergency room visits of the homeless.

Kinda ironic that the taxpayers fund all the rest but Health.!!    never..... ???

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Re: UK National Health Care
« Reply #95 on: July 27, 2010, 10:48:40 PM »
Taxpayers fund all US wars and ,uniquely all US war opponents , like the billions paid to the Pakistanis ( Taliban ) and the billions that went 'missing' in Iraq.... it's unique and prolongs 'campains'.... Whoops, better tie it in to the current Thread, ...no money for the peoples( Americans ) health...... foreign insurgents got it all, oh, well.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2010, 10:51:46 PM by Spanner 1 »
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Offline Retro Rocket

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Re: UK National Health Care
« Reply #96 on: July 27, 2010, 11:00:07 PM »
Taxpayers fund all US wars and ,uniquely all US war opponents , like the billions paid to the Pakistanis ( Taliban ) and the billions that went 'missing' in Iraq.... it's unique and prolongs 'campains'.... Whoops, better tie it in to the current Thread, ...no money for the peoples( Americans ) health...... foreign insurgents got it all, oh, well.

Short and sweet and straight to the point...... ;)

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Offline demon78

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Re: UK National Health Care
« Reply #97 on: July 28, 2010, 04:01:19 AM »
I'll say it again our system is not perfect, but it works for less money than does the US system, I do wonder about not having a healthy and educated populace, has anyone ever done a cost analysis on that? Is the US failing because of this or is it predatory capitalism that's driving them down?
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Offline edbikerii

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Re: UK National Health Care
« Reply #98 on: July 28, 2010, 04:33:58 AM »
In the words of Rahm Emmanuel, Obama's White House Chief of Staff, "never let a good crisis go to waste".

The current administration CREATED the "healthcare crisis" despite the fact that over 85% of Americans were perfectly happy with their healthcare, just like 85% of Canadians [see gallup polls I've posted here before, and Canadian gov doc].

Had this administration done its job and focused on cutting taxes on employers (especially small businesses), the economy would have been better off, fewer people would be unemployed.  But alas, that wouldn't fit Obama's model.  Fewer Americans would be dependent upon the liberal democrat government for their very sustenance as well as their health care.
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rhos1355

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Re: UK National Health Care
« Reply #99 on: July 28, 2010, 05:04:05 AM »

................over 85% of Americans were perfectly happy with their healthcare,............



That's 'cos they either never been anywhere else where a healthcare system works, and have been rendered scared sh*tless by their employers, establishment etc that if they're naughty they'll loose their jobs, and then the big bad wolfie's gonna make them uninsurable.

Thatcher did it.........works every time; show them the carrot then scare them sh*tless.