Author Topic: Stuck at side of road bike can't kick over! (Read 3982 times)

RpBet · « **on:** July 01, 2011, 05:49:21 PM »

Took my bile out for it's maiden voyage. I may have pooched something. I can't kick her over. She feels stuck. I was running 20 psi at the oil gauge. What should a 78 cb750k have for pressure running and at idle. Help!

sick_seven_fifty · « **Reply #1 on:** July 01, 2011, 06:32:26 PM »

It bothered me that nobody had replied to your thread yet so I decided to look it up for ya.

According to others, oil pressure runs around 10-20 at idle and 55-65 at speed.

Wish I could help ya further....good luck.

sick_seven_fifty · « **Reply #2 on:** July 01, 2011, 06:34:03 PM »

Also, is it possibly just the kick starter that is stuck? You should try putting it in 5th gear and pushing the bike with the clutch out to see if it will turn over. Also, did it quit running suddenly? Make any noises?

madmtnmotors · « **Reply #3 on:** July 01, 2011, 06:38:06 PM »

Maiden voyage? Did you just buy it or did you just finish building it? What work have you done to to it?

scottly · « **Reply #4 on:** July 01, 2011, 06:49:15 PM »

Was it running OK, then you shut it off, and then a few minutes later you tried to kick it and the kick-starter didn't want to move? This is what happened to me, and I was on my way to meet up with a certain lizard at the time.

The motor was hot as hell, and after cooling off loosened up.

RpBet · « **Reply #5 on:** July 01, 2011, 08:23:21 PM »

Quote from: sick_seven_fifty on July 01, 2011, 06:34:03 PM

Also, is it possibly just the kick starter that is stuck? You should try putting it in 5th gear and pushing the bike with the clutch out to see if it will turn over. Also, did it quit running suddenly? Make any noises?

Had to throw here on the back of a pick-up. A little surprised my self that I had no reply's. Oh well, thanks for checking it out. I ending up pulling the shop manual when I got home. I had no pressure at idle and only 20psi at 4000rpm. I can only assume faulty oil pump.

Quote from: madmtnmotors on July 01, 2011, 06:38:06 PM

Maiden voyage? Did you just buy it or did you just finish building it? What work have you done to to it?

Yeah I spent the winter putting her together. I picked it up, and the top end was completely disassembled. I took to shop only to have the timing done and carbs synced. My worry is if I had no pressure at idle and the guy tuning my carbs obviously didn't notice it. (I took off the dummy light.....Dummy!) then their was no oil in the top end the whole time he was tuning the carbs.BAD.

However, I did put on about 20km and a little noise. Crack the throttle noise dissipates. BUT when she was hot and I came to a stop she would die. Did this twice then ceased up.

RpBet · « **Reply #6 on:** July 01, 2011, 08:25:10 PM »

Quote from: scottly on July 01, 2011, 06:49:15 PM

Was it running OK, then you shut it off, and then a few minutes later you tried to kick it and the kick-starter didn't want to move? This is what happened to me, and I was on my way to meet up with a certain lizard at the time. The motor was hot as hell, and after cooling off loosened up.

What was your problem??? Or did it never happen again.

RpBet · « **Reply #7 on:** July 01, 2011, 08:57:18 PM »

Lifted valve cover, as much as I could and discovered the cam chain is off the sprocket. Now I need a Gordon fram kit! And need to check chain for malfunction. Also besides a faulty oil pump what else would cause low oil pressure.

RpBet · « **Reply #8 on:** July 01, 2011, 09:00:21 PM »

Tittle change.

scottly · « **Reply #9 on:** July 01, 2011, 09:09:52 PM »

Quote from: RpBet on July 01, 2011, 08:25:10 PM

Quote from: scottly on July 01, 2011, 06:49:15 PM
Was it running OK, then you shut it off, and then a few minutes later you tried to kick it and the kick-starter didn't want to move? This is what happened to me, and I was on my way to meet up with a certain lizard at the time. The motor was hot as hell, and after cooling off loosened up.

What was your problem??? Or did it never happen again.

The problem, in my case, was due to jetting for 4500' elevation, then blasting at 70-80 MPH for 100 miles, down to about 1000', then getting stuck at a traffic signal for 5 minutes or more in 90 degree temps. Once it cooled off, it was OK. Never happened before, and hasn't happened since, but I did richen up the jetting before hauling the lizard back up into the mountains.

scottly · « **Reply #10 on:** July 01, 2011, 09:15:29 PM »

Quote from: RpBet on July 01, 2011, 08:57:18 PM

Lifted valve cover, as much as I could and discovered the cam chain is off the sprocket. Now I need a Gordon fram kit! And need to check chain for malfunction. Also besides a faulty oil pump what else would cause low oil pressure.

You might as well resign yourself to pulling the motor, if the cam chain is off the sprocket....

RpBet · « **Reply #11 on:** July 02, 2011, 04:10:53 AM »

Quote from: scottly on July 01, 2011, 09:15:29 PM

Quote from: RpBet on July 01, 2011, 08:57:18 PM
Lifted valve cover, as much as I could and discovered the cam chain is off the sprocket. Now I need a Gordon fram kit! And need to check chain for malfunction. Also besides a faulty oil pump what else would cause low oil pressure.
You might as well resign yourself to pulling the motor, if the cam chain is off the sprocket....

Why? Do you think it will be necessary to lift the entire head. I am hoping there is no need to go past the cylinders. I am going to have to do some research. Really hoping to be riding again before the month is out!

cben750f0 · « **Reply #12 on:** July 02, 2011, 04:17:31 AM »

mate if the chain is off the cam sprocket you are gonna need to see if you have bent a valve, holed a piston, etc...that is not just a put it back on fix...its a bad bad thing

Gordon · « **Reply #13 on:** July 02, 2011, 04:46:37 AM »

Quote from: cben750f1 on July 02, 2011, 04:17:31 AM

mate if the chain is off the cam sprocket you are gonna need to see if you have bent a valve, holed a piston, etc...that is not just a put it back on fix...its a bad bad thing

+1, unfortunately.

Chain comes off the cam sprocket while the engine is running, valves and cylinders smack into each other.

dave500 · « **Reply #14 on:** July 02, 2011, 05:06:03 AM »

so you shut it down?or did it go wierd and shut down itself?with the cam chain off the sprocket thats a big bad thing,,umm but the bike was running ok beforehand?

RpBet · « **Reply #15 on:** July 02, 2011, 12:34:50 PM »

I wasn't thinking it was going to be a quick fix. I guess I will have to pull the top to expose the pistons and see from there.

As for the low oil pressure any guesses besides a faulty oil pump. I was only getting 20psi at 4000rpm 0 at idle.

phil71 · « **Reply #16 on:** July 02, 2011, 02:22:57 PM »

chains don't 'come off' the cam sprocket, unless it broke, or the tensioner was left out during re-assembly. that engine's gotta come out.

madmtnmotors · « **Reply #17 on:** July 02, 2011, 02:24:27 PM »

Quote from: RpBet on July 02, 2011, 12:34:50 PM

I wasn't thinking it was going to be a quick fix. I guess I will have to pull the top to expose the pistons and see from there.

As for the low oil pressure any guesses besides a faulty oil pump. I was only getting 20psi at 4000rpm 0 at idle.

Check this thread for good information on correcting issues with low oil pressure:

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=78643.0

I will likely follow the steps shown in that thread just as a preventative/long term maintenance item.

754 · « **Reply #18 on:** July 02, 2011, 09:37:34 PM »

If you ran it with low oil pressure there could be a lot of damage.
Dont worry about a frame kit, the motor will probably be coming out.
Take off yout tappet covers and see if it looks dry.. then dump oil in the pan or filter..if there is lots of metal.. you may need a motor.

unless just prior to riding somone inexperienced worked on the top end and gunged up the oil passages, to the topend
Badly worn main bearings would cause low pressure..

RpBet · « **Reply #19 on:** July 03, 2011, 05:08:21 AM »

Quote from: madmtnmotors on July 02, 2011, 02:24:27 PM

Quote from: RpBet on July 02, 2011, 12:34:50 PM
I wasn't thinking it was going to be a quick fix. I guess I will have to pull the top to expose the pistons and see from there.

As for the low oil pressure any guesses besides a faulty oil pump. I was only getting 20psi at 4000rpm 0 at idle.

Check this thread for good information on correcting issues with low oil pressure:

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=78643.0

I will likely follow the steps shown in that thread just as a preventative/long term maintenance item.

Thanks for the link Madmtn. I will go through all these steps as well as checking the pump to shop speck!

Tintop · « **Reply #20 on:** July 03, 2011, 09:36:26 AM »

I assume you checked the cam chain by removing the breather cover. Given you say it is off the sprocket, it is likely now jammed at the bottom. This would cause an engine lockup, and require a new chain. It also means you have likely bent some valves. The low/no oil pressure for the period of time stated running, would easily have damaged cam bearings.

At the very least you should be pulling the engine, and remove / inspect the cam bearings, and valves. No oil pressure is the least of your problems now.

RpBet · « **Reply #21 on:** July 03, 2011, 12:50:57 PM »

Quote from: Tintop on July 03, 2011, 09:36:26 AM

I assume you checked the cam chain by removing the breather cover. Given you say it is off the sprocket, it is likely now jammed at the bottom. This would cause an engine lockup, and require a new chain. It also means you have likely bent some valves. The low/no oil pressure for the period of time stated running, would easily have damaged cam bearings.

At the very least you should be pulling the engine, and remove / inspect the cam bearings, and valves. No oil pressure is the least of your problems now.

Hey Tintop, Have followed your threads. This is exactly what I have to do. I hope the pistons and valves where spared. I will get to this hopefully during the next week or two. Thanks

Tintop · « **Reply #22 on:** July 03, 2011, 03:34:51 PM »

Keep us posted.

RpBet · « **Reply #23 on:** July 03, 2011, 05:14:36 PM »

This was in the bottom of the pan. Next step remove the motor.

Tintop · « **Reply #24 on:** July 03, 2011, 05:20:36 PM »

Not an good omen.

RpBet · « **Reply #25 on:** July 03, 2011, 05:42:15 PM »

Quote from: Tintop on July 03, 2011, 05:20:36 PM

Not an good omen.

Yeah. Oh well, learning curves! What's your initial best guess?

Roach · « **Reply #26 on:** July 03, 2011, 06:04:51 PM »

looks like when the cam chain came off it ground down the sides of the case maybe...

RpBet · « **Reply #27 on:** July 03, 2011, 06:24:36 PM »

Quote from: Roach on July 03, 2011, 06:04:51 PM

looks like when the cam chain came off it ground down the sides of the case maybe...

Let's hope. I can live with that anything to keep the pistons and valves intact.

754 · « **Reply #28 on:** July 03, 2011, 10:20:03 PM »

Those pieces are HUGE..!!
Maybe the cam bolts backed off.
That amount off debris may have slowed the oil flow to the pump, which would cause pressure to drop..

scottly · « **Reply #29 on:** July 03, 2011, 11:03:17 PM »

How did the aquarium gravel (blue and amber colored bits, and the dotted shell near the center of the pic) get in your oil pan? The aluminum chips look like they came off a drill or end-mill; not like when a cam chain saws into the chain tunnel.

bryanj · « **Reply #30 on:** July 04, 2011, 12:02:09 AM »

That amount of Cr*p means a last nut and bolt stripdown, meticulous inspection/cleanout and careful rebuild FORGET any idea of just doing the top you are just throwing money away

dave500 · « **Reply #31 on:** July 04, 2011, 12:14:31 AM »

Quote from: RpBet on July 01, 2011, 05:49:21 PM

Took my bile out for it's maiden voyage. I may have pooched something. I can't kick her over. She feels stuck. I was running 20 psi at the oil gauge. What should a 78 cb750k have for pressure running and at idle. Help!

your first post wasnt wrong,you certainly did take your bile for a run!

wingman1946 · « **Reply #32 on:** July 04, 2011, 06:55:19 AM »

Holly Macaroons !!! Wasn't there some noise involved with this happening?

RpBet · « **Reply #33 on:** July 04, 2011, 07:51:59 AM »

Quote from: wingman1946 on July 04, 2011, 06:55:19 AM

Holly Macaroons !!! Wasn't there some noise involved with this happening?

No noise. I came to a stop sign and she bogged down. Never to turn again.

Well, I will be pulling the motor tonight. Thanks again to all, and I will keep you guys posted.

wrenchmuch · « **Reply #34 on:** July 04, 2011, 05:44:18 PM »

I agree with Roach . I bet that debris came from the cam chain tunnel . I hope its not as bad as it looks .

RpBet · « **Reply #35 on:** July 06, 2011, 04:02:14 PM »

So far Roach is correct. Looks like the screw holding the cam sprocket started to rub.

RpBet · « **Reply #36 on:** July 06, 2011, 06:43:39 PM »

More damage to the top end. Looks like when the chain jammed it broke off the "ears" on the cam. Good thing I picked up a parts bike for $250 last year. I think I just made my money back.

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Spanner 1 · « **Reply #37 on:** July 06, 2011, 08:57:01 PM »

Wow...... call Mike Rowe of 'Deadliest Catch' he might know whats in your sump.... just kiddin'. Sorry you had such a bad thing happen

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Author Topic: Stuck at side of road bike can't kick over! (Read 3982 times)