Author Topic: Scare tactics//Statistics//New Rider//  (Read 9955 times)

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Offline grcamna2

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Re: Scare tactics//Statistics//New Rider//
« Reply #25 on: July 02, 2014, 01:07:41 PM »
Hey, I'm in a band, and was in many. I would gladly say that there isn't any money in it. As long as I've been playing with a band (10 years over 5 different areas) we have never made anything worth bragging about (and we played some awesome stuff). Nowadays, you're lucky to get free drinks on the house. Point being, you don't play in a band to make money--you play to have fun! If you're goal is to make a living, that's the wrong reason to play IMO. Restoring motorcycles and cars is the same way...if you're in it to make money, then good luck!

Just like you don't ride to crash. You ride to have fun. If it helps, I was a new rider 2 years ago. I still am a new rider. We all should act like new riders. I ride 8 months out of the year, every single day. I've taken 3 motorcycle training classes (fourth one that I'm enlisted in comes up in the fall which experienced police officers have to take and has a large failure rate...it is TOUGH). I've took several small trips. I interview all of my friends about their incidents and how they felt like they could avoid them. There is ALWAYS something you can do a vast majority of the time. Motorcycling isn't like being dumped into an ocean with swarming sharks and there's nothing you can do. There's things you can do even to avoid being hit while stopped at a red light. Rare unthinkable #$%* still happens, but a huge majority is avoidable with the proper training and experience. Rider's situational awareness = defensive driving comes into it (some people severely lack this).

Those who say training doesn't matter seriously needs to get a grip on reality. Ask any motorcycle training instructor and they will tell you that some of the seasoned riders make some of the worst mistakes over and over again. Experience + Training is the key.

Motorcycling is like martial arts. It's a constant progression, and there is no "highest level".

You're already asking the right questions which means you take safety #1. MOtorcycling is about safety first, then fun second. Most people who ride have that backwards. You'll do fine.

Thanks fendersrule. Yeah I know there isn't much money in music, I was talking about the things people say to try and shake your confidence in something.

The way I see it, when somebody steps up to do something that will lead to defining moments in their life, and they want to take it seriously, there's hundreds of people out there, lined up to try and talk them out of doing what it is they want, hoping that the person will slip back into mediocrity, along with the majority of people in the world. I feel this way about riding (and music of course). This is something that I've wanted to do for a while and I'm taking it very seriously. Thanks for the feedback.

I hear exactly what you're saying cbparakeet about folks who don't(or are too afraid to want to try..)want to help you or encourage you to 'step out of the box' and try a new(albeit 'scary-to-them' venture  :o :-[ ) activity that is challenging. Those are what I call 'Pure Reductionists' and I've met my share(a huge understatement...  :-X ) of them in my past and will meet many more as the years go by... The toughest thing to attempt to do with'em is to encourage THEM !  ::)  it feels like 'Mission Impossible'  :( even though I still keep trying  :D  I may win one of them someday w/ a lot of Divine Intervention. Miracles do happen.  A good,positive imagination is essential to keep you going; check out that video series I mentioned in an earlier post called 'Street Smarts'  I think you'll like it.  ;) :)
« Last Edit: July 02, 2014, 01:10:55 PM by grcamna2 »
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Offline cbparakeet

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Re: Scare tactics//Statistics//New Rider//
« Reply #26 on: July 02, 2014, 01:09:49 PM »
I'm watching it right now, I just got to 'freeways'. Thanks again.

Offline KRONUS0100

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Re: Scare tactics//Statistics//New Rider//
« Reply #27 on: July 02, 2014, 01:14:55 PM »
been down 3 times now hard................................5am in dark in pouring rain on way to work and slammed a dog coming out of a field.................................................................2pm in broad daylight on an 81 goldwing and had mechanical transmission failure at 75mph coming out of a sweeper curve..............................................................................................and just recently a few weeks ago ona back country winding up and downhill road...................................was run off the road by an idiot teenager in a wingding rice racer at the top of hill curve........... he was in my lane.
accidents happen real fast out of the blue
ALWAYS  do a pre-ride inspection
ALWAYS  keep both eyes open and on the road and scan your surroundings
other than that, learn your bike inside and out..................how much it weighs full tank and empty, learn what it feels like on a low tire so you know for future reference
you can never get enough balance practice or dodging objects in the road at speed practice.

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bikes owned:1981 GL1100I, 1990 GS500E, 1981 GS850, 1977 and 1979 GS750, 1974 CB750, 1975 CB750, and a 1982 GS750E

Offline grcamna2

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Re: Scare tactics//Statistics//New Rider//
« Reply #28 on: July 02, 2014, 01:16:43 PM »
I'm watching it right now, I just got to 'freeways'. Thanks again.

Yeah buddy !  it also helps me when I'm riding to look far ahead and 'through the corner' when moving along on your bike;it's like throwing a baseball or aiming a weapon:what your eyes stay focused on is where you go...,as you spend more time on your bike you'll develop an 'extra sense' for who's going to invade your space. Think of yourself as 'Invisible' out there....  the auto operators always seem to say that common phrase like "I never saw him..."  :o ::) ::)  I'd make sure he 'Saw me' if I was still conscious after the accident  >:( That's for SURE ! !
I practice countersteering on all the roads I travel on continually and it may look like I'm 'weaving' a bit...but not really,I'm adjusting my 2 wheel 'tracking' on all the different road surface irregular 'angles';most roads aren't really flat and need continuous countersteering handlebar 'adjustments' to feel the correct 'angle of attack' for the weird road surfaces...continually getting the 'feel' of the surface even on the same roads I've traveled on many times.Think of it as drawing fresh 'lines' with your 2 wheels contact patch...,it keeps me from getting bored and gives me more 'line of sight'(line of best sight on the cars/traffic around you)down the road to notice how the other drivers are operating with you on the road and hope I can tell enough in a split second to avoid the accident; Keep all your senses keen and your eyes wide open to stay alive.
Motorcycles are so very maneuverable on 2 wheels you can literally 'see' a Lot more than you can from an automobile seat and that 'sight' will help you avoid an accident,I just wish some other drivers on the road would signal and then take a fully committed ACTION to their maneuvers... but I guess that's asking too much  ::) :o  Inattention at the wheel is the dumbest thing any driver can do in my opinion.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2014, 09:00:30 PM by grcamna2 »
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  I love the small ones too !
Do your BEST...nobody can take that away from you.

Offline Vicman

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Re: Scare tactics//Statistics//New Rider//
« Reply #29 on: July 02, 2014, 01:30:11 PM »
Sound advice.
After riding for 30+ years I still haven't found someone who doesn't consistently make it a shootout.
Maybe it's me,  lol.
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Online vfourfreak

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Re: Scare tactics//Statistics//New Rider//
« Reply #30 on: July 02, 2014, 01:35:03 PM »
try and find some friends to ride with but not in too large groups 3 or 4 is plenty,dont ride with people who turn every outing into a race,dont try and ride as fast as someone with more experience than you.

+1

Don't try and race on the roads. If you really want to see what your bike can do, or how much faster / braver / stupider you are than your mates, book a track day. If you think you are really fast, go racing in properly regulated events.
Otherwise the road is a place where danger lurks at every turn, even in a straight line.
Accidents are rarely the result of a single event, they are normally caused by a chain of events that conspire to cause bad s**t. ALWAYS assume that everyone else on the road is out to get you and try not to add that final causal factor into the equation that results in an accident.

There is no point getting to the pearly gates and telling the man "I was in the right / I had priority" because at that point you is dead, as in history.

I have been to too many funerals during my 20's, I learnt most from them.

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Offline Stev-o

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Re: Scare tactics//Statistics//New Rider//
« Reply #31 on: July 02, 2014, 01:51:07 PM »


I meant scare tactics like, when your friend or something just tells you straight up the moment you mention you want to ride "oh you're gonna kill yourself" or the whole "donor cycle" #$%*, trying to "scare" me out of buying a motorcycle. Basically people with 0 experience riding telling me right off the bat that I'm going to die if I buy a motorcycle. I'm not saying there isn't a chance, but I don't like people telling me what I want to do


Now I understand Parakeet, you should have included this in your first post.  I would not like it either.
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Online vfourfreak

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Re: Scare tactics//Statistics//New Rider//
« Reply #32 on: July 02, 2014, 02:07:24 PM »


I meant scare tactics like, when your friend or something just tells you straight up the moment you mention you want to ride "oh you're gonna kill yourself" or the whole "donor cycle" #$%*, trying to "scare" me out of buying a motorcycle. Basically people with 0 experience riding telling me right off the bat that I'm going to die if I buy a motorcycle. I'm not saying there isn't a chance, but I don't like people telling me what I want to do


Now I understand Parakeet, you should have included this in your first post.  I would not like it either.

I went road racing in Ireland for 5 years. (Check Youtube for what THAT is like).
I had stupid dipsticks tell me that we were all mad daredevils with a deathwish. Fcukwits, actually roadracers are the most disciplined, calculated riders I have ever had the pleasure of knowing. The track is disciplined and is relatively safe, trust me. So don't listen to the idle bystanders.

However the road is quite different, it is populated by badly trained, badly disciplined, impetuous, ignorant, careless idiots. (and I don't refer specifically to France). A different ballgame entirely.

I am riding bikes now for 40 years (!!!!!) and nobody can tell me that there is anything more enjoyable in this life. But I do it with great care. Unlike skiing and lovemaking where I am renowned as something of a bit of a lad and take the odd risk.

Seriously, riding bikes is one of the last real freedoms we have, enjoy it now cos legislators don't like us, at least here in Europe.

Kev

fendersrule

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Re: Scare tactics//Statistics//New Rider//
« Reply #33 on: July 02, 2014, 02:19:45 PM »
My father gave me huge scare tactics when I decided to ride.

After I got my CB750, he felt compelled to get back into it again after he stopped riding for 20 years so he bought a DOHC CB750 to have a "better" bike than me. :)

He kept telling me a story in the past where a car pulled out and ran into him on the highway because he couldn't see them (it was tall field grassy area). He flew over the hood of the car.

I've had the pleasure of riding with him, and he is NOT a good rider. It's obvious he had no training. He was riding out in the center of the lane most of the time (which is not where you should "stay" most of the time) when I was following him. This might explain why he had his accident in the past. See, training helps. Riding in center of the lane makes you harder to see not only for people making left turns, but even people driving behind you forget that you are there..

I blew up on him when I saw him pull out his cellphone to take a picture of something while riding....

How many vehicle accidents have you had since you started to drive a vehicle? If you got in "a few or more" accidents, then you shouldn't be riding.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2014, 02:29:50 PM by fendersrule »

Offline Vicman

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Re: Scare tactics//Statistics//New Rider//
« Reply #34 on: July 02, 2014, 02:23:49 PM »
Quote
riding out in the center of the lane most of the time (which is not where you should "stay" most of the time)

I immediately rank a rider who does that as a hack.
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Offline demon78

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Re: Scare tactics//Statistics//New Rider//
« Reply #35 on: July 02, 2014, 03:23:39 PM »
Ok I've driven a bike since 1959 from Matchless/AJS Honda S90/Cb750 Triumph/Bsa Norton/ Royal Enfield Bmw Jawa Harley Laverda, Yamaha Kawasaki and probably a few I forget I've mechaniced on most everything shop managed for a couple of dealerships and learned the hard way I drove a 175 Yamaha enduro all one winter to work and back at the dealership through one of the snowiest winters in Kitchener Ontario Canada (my wife would have to take the hair dryer to the zipper on my snow mobile suit so I could get it off) So my advice  to you take courses on safe riding, Positional awareness becomes one of your more important skills a gut feeling, have plan about what to do if a car/truck/tank goes through an intersection you hit wet leaves/sand gravel/ice dog #$%* in the inside of a corner, some #$%*/drunk tries to run you over or some chic in a Bikini jiggles in front of you and wants a ride, what I'm saying is plan plan plan for events and I'm not saying do it all at once but take small bites and think and plan about,,,,,,, The next thing is practice practice practice and the final thing is remember the danger time which is about 6-8 weeks into riding you've finally are comfortable and have mastered a bunch of skills and then you get careless BANG. If that seems over whelming this is a sport/hobby/life experience that gets better as you progress to each higher level Just like screwing the better you get at it the more fun it becomes.
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Offline petercb750

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Re: Scare tactics//Statistics//New Rider//
« Reply #36 on: July 02, 2014, 03:28:13 PM »
He was riding out in the center of the lane most of the time (which is not where you should "stay" most of the time) when I was following him. This might explain why he had his accident in the past. See, training helps. Riding in center of the lane makes you harder to see not only for people making left turns, but even people driving behind you forget that you are there..

Oh really.... :o
Sorry mate, that's really not good advice. Would you prefer someone rides off centre so they are in a blind spot...?
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Offline cbparakeet

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Re: Scare tactics//Statistics//New Rider//
« Reply #37 on: July 02, 2014, 03:38:47 PM »
Ok I've driven a bike since 1959 from Matchless/AJS Honda S90/Cb750 Triumph/Bsa Norton/ Royal Enfield Bmw Jawa Harley Laverda, Yamaha Kawasaki and probably a few I forget I've mechaniced on most everything shop managed for a couple of dealerships and learned the hard way I drove a 175 Yamaha enduro all one winter to work and back at the dealership through one of the snowiest winters in Kitchener Ontario Canada (my wife would have to take the hair dryer to the zipper on my snow mobile suit so I could get it off) So my advice  to you take courses on safe riding, Positional awareness becomes one of your more important skills a gut feeling, have plan about what to do if a car/truck/tank goes through an intersection you hit wet leaves/sand gravel/ice dog #$%* in the inside of a corner, some #$%*/drunk tries to run you over or some chic in a Bikini jiggles in front of you and wants a ride, what I'm saying is plan plan plan for events and I'm not saying do it all at once but take small bites and think and plan about,,,,,,, The next thing is practice practice practice and the final thing is remember the danger time which is about 6-8 weeks into riding you've finally are comfortable and have mastered a bunch of skills and then you get careless BANG. If that seems over whelming this is a sport/hobby/life experience that gets better as you progress to each higher level Just like screwing the better you get at it the more fun it becomes.
Bill the demon.

Thanks Bill!

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Re: Scare tactics//Statistics//New Rider//
« Reply #38 on: July 02, 2014, 03:40:10 PM »
Tell him, Peter!
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Offline Retro Rocket

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Re: Scare tactics//Statistics//New Rider//
« Reply #39 on: July 02, 2014, 04:00:18 PM »
He was riding out in the center of the lane most of the time (which is not where you should "stay" most of the time) when I was following him. This might explain why he had his accident in the past. See, training helps. Riding in center of the lane makes you harder to see not only for people making left turns, but even people driving behind you forget that you are there..

Oh really.... :o
Sorry mate, that's really not good advice. Would you prefer someone rides off centre so they are in a blind spot...?

Agreed, It always worries me when inexperienced riders start giving advice to inexperienced riders, especially without the years it takes to become an experienced rider... :o  Ride where you are most visible, its fairly easy to work out, watch what most drivers are doing by watching their mirrors, this only helps , it is NOT a rule as idiots do what idiots want, usually without warning, but it may just be that little glance in the mirror you spot that stops you from being run off the road, you'll also know if they have seen you. Don't ride paranoid but ride alert, always. Watch everyone and learn how to use the brakes to 100% of their capacity, feel is very important on a motorcycle, everyone that rides should know the limits of themselves and their machine and ride appropriately. Riding in the center of the lane is probably the BEST place to ride, you will be more visible to most other road users and there is more distance between you and traffic in the other lanes, and as Peter mentioned, you won't end up in anyone's blind spot until you are passing traffic and you should also be aware of this...  And Fenders, before you blow up, Peter is a  RIDER TRAINER... ;D
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Offline madmtnmotors

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Re: Scare tactics//Statistics//New Rider//
« Reply #40 on: July 02, 2014, 04:28:02 PM »

Oh really.... :o
Sorry mate, that's really not good advice. Would you prefer someone rides off centre so they are in a blind spot...?


 Riding in the center of the lane is probably the BEST place to ride


If you had to boil it down to a general rule this might apply. I find myself moving from one side to the other, even riding the center if appropriate. For instance, as I approach an intersecting side street I will usually shift to the side of my lane furthest from the nearest potential approaching vehicle. We drive on the right here in the states (as God intended  :o  ;) ) so I typically shift to the left side of my lane to give myself as much room as possible to avoid any stop sign or red light runners approaching from the right. Now if there were a vehicle to my immediate left I would likely just shift to the center of the lane (sometimes combined with a change in speed). With vehicles to my left (on a multi-lane highway) I would tend to favor the right side of my lane. On two-lane roads I tend to favor the left side of my lane (furthest from intersecting side streets) unless there is oncoming traffic from the opposite direction, then I tend to favor the right side of my lane, so when they look down to start texting (and cross the center line) I have a little "cushion". The more distance between me and potential trouble is that much more reaction time I am afforded (even if only a fraction of a second).

There are way too many scenarios to declare one "best" lane position, at least for me, the "best" lane position depends upon current conditions and which position provides me the largest "cushion".  8)
TAMTF...


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Offline Retro Rocket

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Re: Scare tactics//Statistics//New Rider//
« Reply #41 on: July 02, 2014, 04:40:57 PM »

Oh really.... :o
Sorry mate, that's really not good advice. Would you prefer someone rides off centre so they are in a blind spot...?


 Riding in the center of the lane is probably the BEST place to ride


If you had to boil it down to a general rule this might apply. I find myself moving from one side to the other, even riding the center if appropriate. For instance, as I approach an intersecting side street I will usually shift to the side of my lane furthest from the nearest potential approaching vehicle. We drive on the right here in the states (as God intended  :o  ;) ) so I typically shift to the left side of my lane to give myself as much room as possible to avoid any stop sign or red light runners approaching from the right. Now if there were a vehicle to my immediate left I would likely just shift to the center of the lane (sometimes combined with a change in speed). With vehicles to my left (on a multi-lane highway) I would tend to favor the right side of my lane. On two-lane roads I tend to favor the left side of my lane (furthest from intersecting side streets) unless there is oncoming traffic from the opposite direction, then I tend to favor the right side of my lane, so when they look down to start texting (and cross the center line) I have a little "cushion". The more distance between me and potential trouble is that much more reaction time I am afforded (even if only a fraction of a second).

There are way too many scenarios to declare one "best" lane position, at least for me, the "best" lane position depends upon current conditions and which position provides me the largest "cushion".  8)

I agree, I was specifically referring to traffic riding whilst moving, or on a multi lane road, I would never condone sitting in the right  side of a lane when turning left, or even center, that makes no sense, making your movements obvious is a good thing, ..Lets just say, "generally", thats how it was meant to be read... ;)
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fendersrule

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Re: Scare tactics//Statistics//New Rider//
« Reply #42 on: July 02, 2014, 04:49:02 PM »
He was riding out in the center of the lane most of the time (which is not where you should "stay" most of the time) when I was following him. This might explain why he had his accident in the past. See, training helps. Riding in center of the lane makes you harder to see not only for people making left turns, but even people driving behind you forget that you are there..

Oh really.... :o
Sorry mate, that's really not good advice. Would you prefer someone rides off centre so they are in a blind spot...?

Agreed, It always worries me when inexperienced riders start giving advice to inexperienced riders, especially without the years it takes to become an experienced rider... :o  Ride where you are most visible, its fairly easy to work out, watch what most drivers are doing by watching their mirrors, this only helps , it is NOT a rule as idiots do what idiots want, usually without warning, but it may just be that little glance in the mirror you spot that stops you from being run off the road, you'll also know if they have seen you. Don't ride paranoid but ride alert, always. Watch everyone and learn how to use the brakes to 100% of their capacity, feel is very important on a motorcycle, everyone that rides should know the limits of themselves and their machine and ride appropriately. Riding in the center of the lane is probably the BEST place to ride, you will be more visible to most other road users and there is more distance between you and traffic in the other lanes, and as Peter mentioned, you won't end up in anyone's blind spot until you are passing traffic and you should also be aware of this...  And Fenders, before you blow up, Peter is a  RIDER TRAINER... ;D

That's great and all, but I actually know the correct answer. Aside from one condescending remark in your post (usually it exceeds 10) your post was rather "tame". Thank you.

The correct answer is to ride where you are most seen, and where you can most see. That's an undeniable fact. That's the answer you have to mark on your endorsement test to pass.

The correct answer is "It depends". I'm only speaking "in general". I am usually on the left side of the lane 80% of the time while riding because that's the best spot for others to see me based on simply geometry! But I fluctuate to other areas to where I can BEST see and be seen at all times depending on the circumstances. When I approach an intersection that's "busy", I will scoot over to the center of the lane so that I am most seen by traffic. Sometimes I scoot to the right side of the lane to keep myself seen in a side mirror when I'm questioning if a vehicle is going to pass without seeing me. It all depends on the circumstances.

What defines a good rider is their vigorous behavior of moving around to the best lane position so that they are in the position best see and be seen at all times. I find this to be slightly on the left side of the lane the most of the time!
« Last Edit: July 02, 2014, 04:58:47 PM by fendersrule »

fendersrule

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Re: Scare tactics//Statistics//New Rider//
« Reply #43 on: July 02, 2014, 05:06:47 PM »
Tell him, Peter!

Tell me what? This?:

http://www.mctourguide.com/lane-positioning/



Lane Position 1                                                                                                                                                           

All things being equal, lane position 1 would be the default lane position on a two lane road. The rider is able to scan further ahead and behind to determine hazards. Drivers ahead and behind have the rider in the primary rear view mirror and in full frontal view respectively. Most importantly, oncoming traffic can see the rider far sooner than if the rider is hidden by a car in front.  Something else I personally feel is that there is more “room to run” than anywhere else on the road. There is more pavement left and right of the rider to use to avoid hazards. To put these considerations to the test, watch as you drive or ride, for a rider who has chosen lane position 3  behind a car or some vehicle large enough to hide the bike (there are unfortunately plenty out there). The rider only becomes visible at the last instant as the car in front passes you. For that rider, it is not unusual for a driver coming the other way, itching to pass the car in front, to move out into the oncoming lane only to see there is a bike right where they thought there was nothing. Bad news for the bike. To sum up, as a general rule lane position 1 gives you the highest conspicuity, highest visibilty and the most dominance of any other position on the roadway. As a single rider, you are in the  best position for a left turn, however must move to lane position 3 for the best position for a right turn. 

Lane Position 2

The center of the road is often  described by some as “the grease strip” and that it should be avoided at all times. Except for very particular circumstances, this is not true. Unfortunately the statement malignes what can be the safest place to be. Certainly at or near intersections the roadway can be covered in oil dripping from countless cars waiting at red lights. On the open road and less busy city streets clear of intersections, this is not the case. This means a rider must survey his or her situation if considering riding in lane position 2. The advantages of lane position 2? You are farther away from oncoming traffic and the curb. It is a decent place to be when rounding a blind curve or approaching a blind hill, allowing fair visibility and conspicuity at the same time and at the same time allowing “room to run” if things change on either side (i.e. driver over the line or car parked on the side of the road). Disadvantages? You are hidden by cars ahead from on-coming traffic to some degree, there is sometimes more debris in the center of the road, you are not in the primary mirror of the driver in front and perhaps less visible to following drivers. To make safer left and right turns you must move to positions 1 and 3 respectively. 

Lane Position 3

This position is usually the least desireable position for normal riding because of poor visibility, conspicuity and dominance. You are close to the curb or parked cars and there is usually a lot of debris (read: gravel or sand) in that position if there is a curb. It is a very good place to be in blind corners and approaching blind hills, although it must be kept in mind that there can also be hidden hazards on the curb side once rounding the corner or cresting the hill. It is the best position to make a right turn, claiming the lane as your own prior to the turn (bicycles and even cars will tend to deek in between you and the curb if they think they can). It is often suggested to move over to lane position 3 when being approached by a large truck, bus or other that may produce a significant wind blast. Something to consider is that if the wind blast is that strong that it may disturb the bike, being in lane position 3 only places you about four feet further away (negligeable reduction in wind blast) but also four feet closer to the curb. If the wind blast is that bad, I personally don’t like being too close to the side of the road. Thankfully, unless there is a severe cross wind, it is not usually all that bad and in all cases, easy to manage using counter steering. Junk falling off a truck is more of an issue and again, lane position 3 leaves you very little “room to run”. 

Keeping in mind I've already given the answer "where you can best see and be seen", but the above clearly states my point. Thanks for the brash remarks to some. Some of you that disagree with the above have been in many accidents. I wonder if it's starting to make sense now?  ???
« Last Edit: July 02, 2014, 05:11:15 PM by fendersrule »

Online calj737

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Re: Scare tactics//Statistics//New Rider//
« Reply #44 on: July 02, 2014, 05:31:13 PM »
Tell him, Peter!

Tell me what? This?:


Does my answer matter since you seem to willing to debate others who train riders, have themselves ridden for decades, or do you simply prefer to defend your position of "I took a test and got the answer right?"

Get over yourself already- you'd argue with a signpost about what sign it should be posting, in your vast experience. Your statements declaring your experience of where/when/how is akin to my saying "I once gave a welder a hand job, so now I'm certified to advise on TIG welding".

As for your attack on Retro, I've seen him be patronizing, generally to those who deserve it. Myself included, once.
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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of it's victim may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

Offline BobbyR

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Re: Scare tactics//Statistics//New Rider//
« Reply #45 on: July 02, 2014, 05:59:48 PM »
You have gotten some solid advice and some war stories. You understand there is is risk inherent in riding. To sum all this us you must learn how to "manage the risk".  You have a better chance of contracting Cancer or having Heart attack than being killed on a bike, if you approach it properly.

The first thing you must decide if you are willing to assume the risk and think you can manage it.

I was told this a long time ago and it fits:

If a superior helicopter pilot uses his superior judgment he will not be called on to use his superior skills.
 
Dedicated to Sgt. Howard Bruckner 1950 - 1969. KIA LONG KHANH.

But we were boys, and boys will be boys, and so they will. To us, everything was dangerous, but what of that? Had we not been made to live forever?

Offline petercb750

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Re: Scare tactics//Statistics//New Rider//
« Reply #46 on: July 02, 2014, 08:01:43 PM »
Fenders, you made a statement, and was giving a new rider advice (and i note the post has been edited) that you shouldn't ride in the centre of the lane most of the time. It takes 2 or 3 people to point out that that is pretty sh1t advice. Then you copy some instructional stuff that explains lane positioning etc etc to justify what you said....but your opening statement had no such info, just a blanket unqualified and ill informed "advice". And it's that what people reacted to.
The centre of the lane is pretty well the safest place to be most of the time, particularly on multi laned busy roads as it gives you maximum buffer zones on each side. None of this other stuff you cough up will convince me otherwise.
Yes there are times you could/should be off centre, but each situation is different and needs to be treated as such.

One last piece of advice....don't make blanket statements to new riders without explanation or some degree of knowledge....it can end on tears.
1972 750/4 K2 (his), 1976 400/4 (hers)
1982 CB1100RC (ours)

fendersrule

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Re: Scare tactics//Statistics//New Rider//
« Reply #47 on: July 02, 2014, 09:16:52 PM »
Whoa, whoa. I did not edit my original statement. You should NOT ride in the center of the lane most of the time. That's always been said. What I referenced shows it too. If you disagree, that's fine. But don't tell me I'm wrong or that I don't know #$%*.

I disagree with your contention that riding in the center of the lane is safest most of the time. Maybe I ought to strap on my Go-Pro and show what it looks like to ride in the center of the lane and be blocked by vehicles in front of you and not being able to be seen at all by oncoming traffic. Sorry, that's my advice. You can take it, or leave it. Just like the OP can. Let him learn from his instructors. It would be great for him to take the class and then report back and tell us who's right. I already know from the 8 professionals that I ride with who have been on the road as long as anyone else.

Btw, 3 posters above me have said what I've been saying in just a different way. Telling someone to ride in the center of the lane most of the time WILL end in tears. I hope that's not what you're saying.

I already said the overarching principle is ride where you are most seen and can be seen. That's the truth. On most common rural roads that I travel to work on (which is like the vast majority of roads that I've been on) I am SEEN and can SEE the MOST on the left portion of the lane.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2014, 09:28:30 PM by fendersrule »

Offline grcamna2

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Re: Scare tactics//Statistics//New Rider//
« Reply #48 on: July 02, 2014, 09:27:18 PM »
been down 3 times now hard................................5am in dark in pouring rain on way to work and slammed a dog coming out of a field.................................................................2pm in broad daylight on an 81 goldwing and had mechanical transmission failure at 75mph coming out of a sweeper curve..............................................................................................and just recently a few weeks ago ona back country winding up and downhill road...................................was run off the road by an idiot teenager in a wingding rice racer at the top of hill curve........... he was in my lane.
accidents happen real fast out of the blue
ALWAYS  do a pre-ride inspection
ALWAYS  keep both eyes open and on the road and scan your surroundings
other than that, learn your bike inside and out..................how much it weighs full tank and empty, learn what it feels like on a low tire so you know for future reference
you can never get enough balance practice or dodging objects in the road at speed practice.

+1    especially "balance practice" & "scanning"  :)
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Do your BEST...nobody can take that away from you.

Offline petercb750

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Re: Scare tactics//Statistics//New Rider//
« Reply #49 on: July 02, 2014, 10:01:33 PM »
Whoa, whoa. I did not edit my original statement. You should NOT ride in the center of the lane most of the time. That's always been said. What I referenced shows it too. If you disagree, that's fine. But don't tell me I'm wrong or that I don't know #$%*.

I disagree with your contention that riding in the center of the lane is safest most of the time. Maybe I ought to strap on my Go-Pro and show what it looks like to ride in the center of the lane and be blocked by vehicles in front of you and not being able to be seen at all by oncoming traffic. Sorry, that's my advice. You can take it, or leave it. Just like the OP can. Let him learn from his instructors. It would be great for him to take the class and then report back and tell us who's right. I already know from the 8 professionals that I ride with who have been on the road as long as anyone else.

Btw, 3 posters above me have said what I've been saying in just a different way. Telling someone to ride in the center of the lane most of the time WILL end in tears. I hope that's not what you're saying.

I already said the overarching principle is ride where you are most seen and can be seen. That's the truth. On most common rural roads that I travel to work on (which is like the vast majority of roads that I've been on) I am SEEN and can SEE the MOST on the left portion of the lane.

Please read what I said again.
Thats all from me.
1972 750/4 K2 (his), 1976 400/4 (hers)
1982 CB1100RC (ours)