Author Topic: Patina Hyena - 550/650 674cc Hybrid Cafe Build (Read 381183 times)

DaveBarbier · « **Reply #1150 on:** October 16, 2016, 09:01:27 AM »

23114-426-300
Primary damper bushings.

Before you look at the picture

this motor had less than 8k miles on it. 7,754 to be more precise. The primary rubber damper bush things aren't available any place I look. Although I said that about the tranny output seal and it came back on CMSNL. Not sure how rare of an occurrence that is.

These rubber dampers are the only thing preventing me from assembling the motor up to the cam. Should I just keep waiting and hope these come back on CMSNL (with shipping will probably be around $60), or should I assemble as they are? They don't look great but they are firm and if I push my nail into them the impression springs back. I wonder how these compare to a motor with 30k on the clock with no apparent issues. I'd bet mine would look better.

If I were to keep them, I'd trim off the squeezed out edges.

Thoughts?

DaveBarbier · « **Reply #1151 on:** October 16, 2016, 09:07:49 AM »

Funny that I can buy a new entire primary gear hub with internals for around $500...

SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan · « **Reply #1152 on:** October 16, 2016, 10:44:50 AM »

Quote from: DaveBarbier on October 16, 2016, 09:07:49 AM

Funny that I can buy a new entire primary gear hub with internals for around $500...

Yikes!
I scavanged from 2 motors, but re-used.

DaveBarbier · « **Reply #1153 on:** October 16, 2016, 12:11:00 PM »

Quote from: CB750 Cafe Racer Fan on October 16, 2016, 10:44:50 AM

Quote from: DaveBarbier on October 16, 2016, 09:07:49 AM
Funny that I can buy a new entire primary gear hub with internals for around $500...

Yikes!
I scavanged from 2 motors, but re-used.

Worst case I'll do the same but the rubber seems to be good and there's no movement in the assembly to suggest the rubber is past it's prime. Not hard, not cracking, just...squished a bit haha

bwaller · « **Reply #1154 on:** October 16, 2016, 03:23:31 PM »

Usually they're hard as a rock but the fact that material has been pinched makes me think I'd change them. Have you got a 550 set to compare? Crank brgs are same same with different #'s could be the same here & the 550 parts are available???

RAFster122s · « **Reply #1155 on:** October 16, 2016, 04:19:00 PM »

It is really a question of whether the heat and age has degraded the viscosity/durometer reading for the rubber. Since they are not available there is not much choice but reuse them. Klaus Studios, I think that name is correct, does reproduction rubber parts from good examples submitted to him to cast the molds. I think he gives the person submitting the part one of the new parts. But, that may be incorrect.

If the part shows to be fitting properly without any unreasonable gaps then he could probably use them...
You will get the original parts back unharmed.
Worth considering if you can spare the parts long enough for the molds to be made and check the fit of the prototype/ production parts. He has rear wheel cush rubbers in the collection of parts, so he knows how to select the correct hardness and material.
He already offers several parts for the 750 , 550, 500, 450, and 400 as well as 350/360 parts that are NLA. Heck, CMSNL may be buying rubber parts from him as an aftermarket supplier.

David

DaveBarbier · « **Reply #1156 on:** October 16, 2016, 06:12:17 PM »

Quote from: bwaller on October 16, 2016, 03:23:31 PM

Usually they're hard as a rock but the fact that material has been pinched makes me think I'd change them. Have you got a 550 set to compare? Crank brgs are same same with different #'s could be the same here & the 550 parts are available???

I don't have a 550 set but they're different part numbers. Not sure if that means they're different though. Might be same dimensions except shorter or taller, who knows. Yeah, it's like they've been compressed and they started oozing out where they could, so they must have gotten slightly smaller.

Maybe I could order 1 of the 550 ones and see. Maybe 1 of the 750's too.

DaveBarbier · « **Reply #1157 on:** October 16, 2016, 06:15:22 PM »

Quote from: RAF122S on October 16, 2016, 04:19:00 PM

It is really a question of whether the heat and age has degraded the viscosity/durometer reading for the rubber. Since they are not available there is not much choice but reuse them. Klaus Studios, I think that name is correct, does reproduction rubber parts from good examples submitted to him to cast the molds. I think he gives the person submitting the part one of the new parts. But, that may be incorrect.

If the part shows to be fitting properly without any unreasonable gaps then he could probably use them...
You will get the original parts back unharmed.
Worth considering if you can spare the parts long enough for the molds to be made and check the fit of the prototype/ production parts. He has rear wheel cush rubbers in the collection of parts, so he knows how to select the correct hardness and material.
He already offers several parts for the 750 , 550, 500, 450, and 400 as well as 350/360 parts that are NLA. Heck, CMSNL may be buying rubber parts from him as an aftermarket supplier.

David

Thanks David, I'll look into Klaus Studios. Didn't even know people made reproduction rubber parts for these things. I don't think any of mine qualify as a good mold candidate, though. Decisions...

bwaller · « **Reply #1158 on:** October 17, 2016, 04:20:17 AM »

I can check but it'll be a couple days. The 750's are round & completely different.

DaveBarbier · « **Reply #1159 on:** October 17, 2016, 04:58:34 AM »

Quote from: calj737 on October 17, 2016, 03:36:08 AM

Quote from: DaveBarbier on October 16, 2016, 06:12:17 PM
Maybe I could order 1 of the 550 ones and see. Maybe 1 of the 750's too.
I think I have some spares around, Dave. Let me know if you want me to send some 550/750 parts up for trial fitment.

Since Brent says that the 750's is different I don't even need to try it but if you do have one for the 550 (maybe two that way I can put the pair in and see how the cover slides on) that would be awesome! I don't really have faith that it'll fit, the damper assembly looks much different between these two models, but I'm running out of options.

I was also reading that on the 550 and 650 it's easy to replace these, but on the 750 most forgo it because it's not an easy task. That's making me feel reusing mine isn't that bad. So my last resort isn't terrible in my eyes right now.

DaveBarbier · « **Reply #1160 on:** October 19, 2016, 11:31:57 AM »

May have found those rubber cush dampers. http://www.freedomcyclesinc.com/ out of Missouri.

I called a bunch of places within the US and these guys said they have 8 left. Exactly what I need. Hopefully my dreams won't be crushed when the package comes and it's the wrong part, haha.

SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan · « **Reply #1161 on:** October 19, 2016, 11:34:44 AM »

Did CMSNL get your seal out yet?

DaveBarbier · « **Reply #1162 on:** October 19, 2016, 12:09:02 PM »

Not yet, I ordered it on the 11th and it says it's still pending. Hope that it wasn't a mistake that it said it's available.

DaveBarbier · « **Reply #1163 on:** October 19, 2016, 12:31:42 PM »

Some good news though. I found a suitable o-ring for the oil pump body to case. A 58x3mm o-ring will work there, it seems. Good amount of compression. I bought a 25 pack from McMaster Carr. For future 650 oil pump rebuilders, part #91305-426-003 (part 13 in this fiche here) is not correct for these oil pumps for use between case and oil pump body. That's a 46x2mm o-ring and it actually requires something like a 58x3. The part that's in the fiche is actually the o-ring that's supposed to go under the oil pump body cap/plate.

I was talking to Hondaman (along with other research) and it seems that Buna-N (Nitrile/NBR) is better than Viton (FPM/FKM) for oil in many cases for these bikes. Viton has a texture to it and is stiffer than NBR. And, according to Hondaman, can lead to leaks where pressure is involved...like cylinders to case and head to cylinders oil holes. I don't know for sure, but just due to the softness and finish, I'd guess the OEM stuff is NBR.

SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan · « **Reply #1164 on:** October 19, 2016, 02:34:26 PM »

Quote from: DaveBarbier on October 19, 2016, 12:31:42 PM

Some good news though. I found a suitable o-ring for the oil pump body to case. A 58x3mm o-ring will work there, it seems. Good amount of compression. I bought a 25 pack from McMaster Carr. For future 650 oil pump rebuilders, part #91305-426-003 (part 13 in this fiche here) is not correct for these oil pumps for use between case and oil pump body. That's a 46x2mm o-ring and it actually requires something like a 58x3. The part that's in the fiche is actually the o-ring that's supposed to go under the oil pump body cap/plate.

I was talking to Hondaman (along with other research) and it seems that Buna-N (Nitrile/NBR) is better than Viton (FPM/FKM) for oil in many cases for these bikes. Viton has a texture to it and is stiffer than NBR. And, according to Hondaman, can lead to leaks where pressure is involved...like cylinders to case and head to cylinders oil holes. I don't know for sure, but just due to the softness and finish, I'd guess the OEM stuff is NBR.

I'll have to hit you up for one of those O-rings to have as a spare!

DaveBarbier · « **Reply #1165 on:** October 19, 2016, 04:54:19 PM »

I could send you a few

GV1390 · « **Reply #1166 on:** October 19, 2016, 04:55:33 PM »

Quote from: DaveBarbier on October 19, 2016, 04:54:19 PM

I could send you a few

DaveBarbier · « **Reply #1167 on:** October 22, 2016, 02:25:38 PM »

Freedom Cycles to the rescue! http://www.freedomcyclesinc.com/
These rubber cush dampers worked out. Fast shipping and the rubber was like new. Bags were old and dirty, though, haha. Must have been sitting on their shelves for years.

Just waiting on that darn seal from CMSNL (which should come Monday) and I'll be able to assemble and seal the cases.

DaveBarbier · « **Reply #1168 on:** October 24, 2016, 12:56:57 PM »

Yay, got my seal from CMSNL. I definitely couldn't have used a generic seal. This thing is triple lipped with some oil drainage holes and the back of the seal mates with the output shaft bearing. Pretty specific son of a gun.

SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan · « **Reply #1169 on:** October 24, 2016, 01:47:15 PM »

Quote from: DaveBarbier on October 24, 2016, 12:56:57 PM

Yay, got my seal from CMSNL. I definitely couldn't have used a generic seal. This thing is triple lipped with some oil drainage holes and the back of the seal mates with the output shaft bearing. Pretty specific son of a gun.

Yep, and that was why that one was such a biyatch to find.

DaveBarbier · « **Reply #1170 on:** October 24, 2016, 01:48:05 PM »

Haha!

Flatlander, you are the MAN, haha! I'll try not to seal the cases with him in there. Thanks brother! I'll have a glass of whiskey and toast you from across the Atlantic.

SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan · « **Reply #1171 on:** October 24, 2016, 01:51:57 PM »

Too funny.

DaveBarbier · « **Reply #1172 on:** October 24, 2016, 06:24:15 PM »

Cases sealed, I really like Loctite 518. And if I've said it once, I've said it a thousand times...it smells like candy.

flatlander · « **Reply #1173 on:** October 24, 2016, 10:55:54 PM »

glad the little guy made it over to you safe and sound. i only hope he's not gonna drink all your whiskey like he apparently did with mine!

so that loctite stuff... how does it taste?

DaveBarbier · « **Reply #1174 on:** October 25, 2016, 04:32:06 AM »

Quote from: flatlander on October 24, 2016, 10:55:54 PM

glad the little guy made it over to you safe and sound. i only hope he's not gonna drink all your whiskey like he apparently did with mine!

so that loctite stuff... how does it taste?

Tastes like poison, haha. But then again, whiskey kind of does too...delicious poison.

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Author Topic: Patina Hyena - 550/650 674cc Hybrid Cafe Build (Read 381183 times)