Author Topic: PO drilled and tapped into the rocker shaft... now damaged bearing surfaces  (Read 877 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline evanphi

  • Apparently I'm an
  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,107
  • Rhonda the Basket Case
So I started taking my top end apart last night... and found a few surprises...



See that big bolt there? It is A) too large, B ) not necessary, C) Imperial.

Turns out the PO/whoever built the bike last time DRILLED AND TAPPED to put a 1/4" bolt into the rocker shaft. FOR FORKS SAKE!!!

All the other shafts came out no problemo... this one, on the other hand, scratched my rocker shaft bearing surfaces all to #$%*. The shaft has burrs on it from the drill/tap hack job, so there are gouges in all of them now...



You can see gouges already...





And here's the shaft... leftovers from the drill/tap on both sides of the hole.



PO had to ram the shaft in, and I had to tap it out.


What do I do about the scratched bearing surfaces on my 3/4 cam tower? Get a new one? As for the shaft, I can get rid of the boogers at the edge of the holes using some emery paper. I'm not putting the bolts back in anyway... going to be like the K0-K2.

Can I salvage my cam tower? Can I use it as-is? There are no high spots in those bearings, just the gouges.
--Evan

1975 CB750K "Rhonda"
Delkevic Stainless 4-1 Header, Cone Engineering 18" Quiet Core Reverse Cone, K&N Filter in Drilled Airbox
K5 Crankcase/Frame, K4 Head and Cylinders, K1 Carbs (42;120;1 Turn)

She's a mix-matched (former) basket case, but she's mine.

CB750 Shop Manual (all years), searchable text PDF
Calculating the correct input circumference for digital speedometers connected to the original speedometer drive

Offline flybox1

  • My wife thinks I'm a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 14,301
'78 750K (F3 engine) PD42b's, Modified airbox w/K&N  filter, 40/110 jets, 1 needle shim, IMS@ 1 turn out. Kerker + Cone 18" QuietCore

Past Bikes
1974 550K0 (stock), 1973 CB350F (stock), 1983 Yamaha XS400K (POS)
77/78 cool 2 member #3
"Knowledge without mileage equals bullsh!t" - Henry Rollins

"This is my CB. There are many like it, but this one is mine…"

Offline evanphi

  • Apparently I'm an
  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,107
  • Rhonda the Basket Case
--Evan

1975 CB750K "Rhonda"
Delkevic Stainless 4-1 Header, Cone Engineering 18" Quiet Core Reverse Cone, K&N Filter in Drilled Airbox
K5 Crankcase/Frame, K4 Head and Cylinders, K1 Carbs (42;120;1 Turn)

She's a mix-matched (former) basket case, but she's mine.

CB750 Shop Manual (all years), searchable text PDF
Calculating the correct input circumference for digital speedometers connected to the original speedometer drive

Offline flybox1

  • My wife thinks I'm a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 14,301
The second one looks a little nicer. Clean.  They have it apart so you can see the important wear areas.
'78 750K (F3 engine) PD42b's, Modified airbox w/K&N  filter, 40/110 jets, 1 needle shim, IMS@ 1 turn out. Kerker + Cone 18" QuietCore

Past Bikes
1974 550K0 (stock), 1973 CB350F (stock), 1983 Yamaha XS400K (POS)
77/78 cool 2 member #3
"Knowledge without mileage equals bullsh!t" - Henry Rollins

"This is my CB. There are many like it, but this one is mine…"

Offline HondaMan

  • Someone took this pic of me before I became a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 14,019
  • ...not my choice, I was nicknamed...
    • Getting 'em Back on the Road
Starting in the last of the K2, the Rocker Shafts were locked down with the little 5mm bolts, with 2 being added to each shaft. The reason: Honda was attempting to quiet the engines as so many were being used with fairings, and the rattling noise from the rockers rotating in those towers was their concern. Prior to that, the shafts were allowed to spin free (and lasted MUCH, MUCH longer...).

The big bolt that holds the middle of the rocker tower(s) down has only 7 threads on the pre-1973 heads. This caused many to become stripped when people did not 'read the instructions' in the Shop Manual, which clearly stated to torque these particular 6mm bolts to only 70 in-lbs, lest they strip. In the later heads, Honda added 16 or more threads to stop this chronic issue.

If the big bolt is the one you're saying is now a 1/4-20, that's the right size hole to rethread with new 6x1mm Helicoils, which I do in almost every pre-1973 engine I rebuild. I install 2 of the short (1/4" long) Helicoils against one another, and then the bolt can be (accidentally) torqued to 115 in-lbs without damage.

If just the big bolt is used, the max torque it should receive is that which is just shy of pinching the rocker shaft from rotating. I usually find this to be around 60 in-lbs or so. These bolts were intended to hold the rocker towers in place while the top end was assembled, after which they serve no purpose as the cam bearing nuts and bolts (8) hold the towers in place for runtime. On some engines, the bottom of these bolt holes got drilled thru (like some of the bearing studs) and can become a source of oil leak, which IMO probably causes the overtightening impulse on occasion?

If the rocker shafts have the little 5mm holes drilled and tapped, then they must also have the oil grooves underneath the rocker bearings, or the shafts will wear very quickly. On the late K2 thru K3 engines, these grooves were often misaligned, which caused poor oil film under the rockers. That's why I show in my book how to augment either the shaft grooves or the rocker oil holes, so the groove is open to receive the splash oil from above.
;)
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book

Link to website: www.SOHC4shop.com

Offline madmtnmotors

  • When did I get to be a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 6,117
  • Sunny Central Florida
Drop the oil pan while you're at it. Odds are the P.O. did the drilling and tapping with the head mounted on the engine and all the shavings are floating around everywhere now...  :(
TAMTF...


Wilbur



Projects:
"Evolution": http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=100352.0
"P.O. Debacle": http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,126692.msg1441661.html#msg1441661
F2/F3 O-rings: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=113672.msg1300721#msg1300721
Cam Tower Studs: https://www.mcmaster.com/#93210a017/=t19sgp
Clean up that nasty harness: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=137351.msg1549191#msg1549191
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,148188.msg1688494.html#msg1688494
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,139544.msg1579364.html#msg1579364
                                          
Charging system diagnosis: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=1012.msg8345#msg8345
Get the manuals: http://manuals.sohc4.net/cb750k/
The Dragon: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=45183.msg1571675#msg1571675
Headlight Switch: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=113986.msg1283236#msg1283236
Branden's leak free top end thread: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=107040.0
Engine Lifting Made Easy: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,58210.msg1684742.html#msg1684742
                                      http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,100352.msg1675840.html#msg1675840
Static and Dynamic Timing: http://www.hondachopper.com/garage/carb_info/timing/timing1.html
Airbox Gasket Replacement: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,114485.msg1290000.html#msg1290000
"Café" : http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,84697.msg953814.html#msg953814
PD Carb Choke Linkage: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,100352.msg1669248.html#msg1669248
                                    http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,110931.msg1248354.html#msg1248354
                                    http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,48858.msg515204.html#msg515204
Follow up on your damn posts: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,144305.msg1791605.html#msg1791605
Taiwanese Cam Chain Tensioners:  http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,155043.msg1774841.html#msg1774841
Gumtwo Seat Cover: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,164440.msg1897366.html#msg1897366
Primary Drive: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,166063.msg1919278.html#msg1919278
Tank Latch: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,165975.msg1919495.html#msg1919495
Shorten your forks: http://vintage-and-classic-honda-s.456789.n3.nabble.com/How-to-shorten-forks-td4042465.html DO NOT CUT THE SPRINGS!
Clutch How To: http://vintage-and-classic-honda-s.456789.n3.nabble.com/How-to-change-and-adjust-a-clutch-SOHC-td4040391.html
Late model K7/K8/F2/F3 front sprocket cover removal: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,178428.msg2072279.html#msg2072279
630 to 530 conversion: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180710.msg2094423.html#msg2094423

Sent from my Tandy TRS-80!