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Author Topic: 750 K3 rear axle nut torque issue  (Read 1867 times)

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Offline Chachi

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750 K3 rear axle nut torque issue
« on: April 20, 2016, 09:53:01 AM »
My issue is currently in the hands of a few different people, but I figured I would throw it out to everyone here.

Background: rebuilt rims, powder coated, stainless Buchanan spokes, All Balls bearings. Laced well and trued with proper bearing install from known forum member (all well there, I've been chatting with him too).

Issue: rear wheel binds if axle nut torqued. I have to back off and find a sweet spot to allow wheel free spin. Initially thought it was related to new bearing stiffness, but I think it's something more. Bearings are broken in now. While doing chain adjustments... if nut torqued down properly wheel binds, starts making some bad sounds, and eventually axle itself will rotate with nut if I attempt to keep torquing. I am torquing by hand with 12" crescent wrench.

As far as I know bearings are properly installed and all spacers are in place. Bike is back at my mechanic (local Honda shop with known vintage techs) for evaluation. I can not say 100% what model the 750 rims, hubs and brake panel cover are off of, but they should be correct spec for my K3. Same goes for installed spacers and actual axle. No issues with front wheel.

Any guidance here? Current axle nut pic attached.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2016, 09:57:32 AM by Chachi »
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Offline dhall57

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Re: 750 K3 rear axle nut torque issue
« Reply #1 on: April 20, 2016, 10:44:23 AM »
It's hard to tell  for sure by pic Chachi but on the sprocket side are you sure you aren't missing item#9 collar part#42311-300-010. That for sure would cause wheel hub to rub up against the control arm when you torque in down.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2016, 10:52:28 AM by dhall57 »
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Offline madmtnmotors

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Re: 750 K3 rear axle nut torque issue
« Reply #2 on: April 20, 2016, 10:59:45 AM »
What about the inner spacer, part number 11 in dhall's post? It goes behind the sprocket carrier between the bearing in the sprocket carrier and the bearing in the hub. I have had similar issues when this spacer inadvertently falls out after removing and reinstalling the sprocket hub. The smaller part of this spacer fits inside the sprocket hub bearing.
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Offline CycleRanger

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Re: 750 K3 rear axle nut torque issue
« Reply #3 on: April 20, 2016, 11:01:49 AM »
Yep, missing spacer or incorrectly assembled. Can't really be anything else.
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Offline evanphi

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Re: 750 K3 rear axle nut torque issue
« Reply #4 on: April 20, 2016, 11:32:20 AM »
Quote from: CycleRanger on April 20, 2016, 11:01:49 AM
Yep, missing spacer or incorrectly assembled. Can't really be anything else.

Agreed. That left side looks suspiciously close to the swingarm.

Also on further inspection the sprocket guard (not really needed) also looks like it might be contacting your chain guard.

Love the fresh stainless reverse cone. ;D
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Offline PeWe

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Re: 750 K3 rear axle nut torque issue
« Reply #5 on: April 20, 2016, 12:02:14 PM »
+1, no 9 is missing. Easy to fix. Better than a missing collar between the bearings :)
I always put all the collars on the axle when taking it appart, with washer + nut keeping all parts together. Easy to find all parts when assemble it.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2016, 12:04:37 PM by PeWe »
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Offline Chachi

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Re: 750 K3 rear axle nut torque issue
« Reply #6 on: April 20, 2016, 01:34:38 PM »
#8 in this parts fiche?
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Offline Chachi

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Re: 750 K3 rear axle nut torque issue
« Reply #7 on: April 20, 2016, 01:36:29 PM »
And yes, Evan... the sprocket guard just started rubbing the chain guard. The guard got bent or warped somehow it looks like. Did not initially do that.
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Offline madmtnmotors

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Re: 750 K3 rear axle nut torque issue
« Reply #8 on: April 20, 2016, 02:05:12 PM »
Quote from: Chachi on April 20, 2016, 01:34:38 PM
#8 in this parts fiche?

Either number 8 or number 11. If part number 8 is in place, then remove the sprocket hub and make sure part number 11 is properly placed behind the sprocket hub.
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Projects:
"Evolution": http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=100352.0
"P.O. Debacle": http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,126692.msg1441661.html#msg1441661
F2/F3 O-rings: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=113672.msg1300721#msg1300721
Cam Tower Studs: https://www.mcmaster.com/#93210a017/=t19sgp
Clean up that nasty harness: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=137351.msg1549191#msg1549191
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,148188.msg1688494.html#msg1688494
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,139544.msg1579364.html#msg1579364
                                          
Charging system diagnosis: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=1012.msg8345#msg8345
Get the manuals: http://manuals.sohc4.net/cb750k/
The Dragon: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=45183.msg1571675#msg1571675
Headlight Switch: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=113986.msg1283236#msg1283236
Branden's leak free top end thread: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=107040.0
Engine Lifting Made Easy: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,58210.msg1684742.html#msg1684742
                                      http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,100352.msg1675840.html#msg1675840
Static and Dynamic Timing: http://www.hondachopper.com/garage/carb_info/timing/timing1.html
Airbox Gasket Replacement: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,114485.msg1290000.html#msg1290000
"Café" : http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,84697.msg953814.html#msg953814
PD Carb Choke Linkage: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,100352.msg1669248.html#msg1669248
                                    http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,110931.msg1248354.html#msg1248354
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Follow up on your damn posts: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,144305.msg1791605.html#msg1791605
Taiwanese Cam Chain Tensioners:  http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,155043.msg1774841.html#msg1774841
Gumtwo Seat Cover: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,164440.msg1897366.html#msg1897366
Primary Drive: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,166063.msg1919278.html#msg1919278
Tank Latch: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,165975.msg1919495.html#msg1919495
Shorten your forks: http://vintage-and-classic-honda-s.456789.n3.nabble.com/How-to-shorten-forks-td4042465.html DO NOT CUT THE SPRINGS!
Clutch How To: http://vintage-and-classic-honda-s.456789.n3.nabble.com/How-to-change-and-adjust-a-clutch-SOHC-td4040391.html
Late model K7/K8/F2/F3 front sprocket cover removal: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,178428.msg2072279.html#msg2072279
630 to 530 conversion: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180710.msg2094423.html#msg2094423

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Offline evanphi

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Re: 750 K3 rear axle nut torque issue
« Reply #9 on: April 20, 2016, 05:21:46 PM »
Whichever shop your bike is at has probably removed the rear wheel by now... check the left inside of the swingarm for wear where the bearing retainer (likely) rubbed against it, binding the wheel.
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1975 CB750K "Rhonda"
Delkevic Stainless 4-1 Header, Cone Engineering 18" Quiet Core Reverse Cone, K&N Filter in Drilled Airbox
K5 Crankcase/Frame, K4 Head and Cylinders, K1 Carbs (42;120;1 Turn)

She's a mix-matched (former) basket case, but she's mine.

CB750 Shop Manual (all years), searchable text PDF
Calculating the correct input circumference for digital speedometers connected to the original speedometer drive

Offline Chachi

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Re: 750 K3 rear axle nut torque issue
« Reply #10 on: April 24, 2016, 07:13:37 PM »
So... #11 it is. And apparently since I ran it for a while without, it damaged some other things (#32, #26 and possibly #3).

#'s from fiche pic I posted.
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Offline mystic_1

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Re: 750 K3 rear axle nut torque issue
« Reply #11 on: April 24, 2016, 07:57:23 PM »
Did you mean #33 maybe? 

#32 is the bearing in the hub itself, and #11 is the spacer that goes in between that bearing and the bearing in the drive sprocket carrier (#33).  Without the spacer I would think #33 would have taken all the force.

Glad you figured this out, though.  That would have lead nowhere good if the bearings failed at speed.

mystic_1 
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Offline Chachi

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Re: 750 K3 rear axle nut torque issue
« Reply #12 on: April 25, 2016, 06:52:33 AM »
You are correct, sorry. #33 not #32. Bearing and seal in sprocket are damaged as a result of running without #11 rear axle sleeve/spacer. The wheel bearings themselves are OK. I have a Honda tech going through it for me and he mentioned that #3 retaining bearing looks suspect as well and might be good to replace since we're in there.

And to confirm... #33 and #26 are part of this All Balls kit, right?
http://www.allballsracing.com/25-1362.html

I put this kit in last year, but now need to replace the two damaged sprocket bearing parts.
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72 CB500 K1 - Sold
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