Topic: DIY Egli Sohc 4

[78CB750CAFE]

mec- I have more then one metallurgist friend, and quite a few friends at Litespeed, one of the largest Ti users/ builders in the world. If you have any queries LMK and I will pass them on.

[HavocTurbo]

I didn't think that Ti bolts stretched.

But I'm no metalurgist. (did I spell that right?)

certainly no EGLIologist

lol what that supposed to mean?!?!?!

[mec]

mec- I have more then one metallurgist friend, and quite a few friends at Litespeed, one of the largest Ti users/ builders in the world. If you have any queries LMK and I will pass them on.

thank you for your help.


projekt update:
last weekend was the first roll out. surprisingly all went fine.
we visited the Euroring in Hungary. a small race track with ~14 more or less tight turns, max speed approx 140km/h at the short straight.
three fellows and me, 6 bikes: 500cm rotax enduro, kawasaki 500 twin, suzuki gsxr 1100, moto guzzi lemans 850 (with 98rwHP!), duc hypermotard and my egli honda).

some comments on my egli:
after the first corners it was obvious that the bike is unbelieveable willing to corner. i had to familiarize with this behaviour and found that there are some similarities with the hypermotard. unfortunately after two laps i had to come in the pits because the gear lever was blocked and it was not possible to change gears any more. what a bad surprise! it was late in the afternoon and I decided to do some laps on the hypermotard.
in the evening i fixed the problem with the gear lever. the cause was a loose 6mm bolt in the gear change mechanism behind the gear cover, blocking the inner part of the gear change shaft.
the next day another problem occured: activating the front brake, the front light turned on        i did not waste my time to solve this issue.
lap after lap i began to have more and more confidence in the bike. the brakes started to work, no wonder with the very new brake pads.
the rest of the story is short: the bike handles very well, brakes are a pleasure (2 lockheeds and 315mm disks cannot fail), surprisingly the front fork worked fine as did the rear shocks. there was no need to change any settings (except the gearing, I used a 17er sprocket and 48teeth at the rear).
the engine worked fantastic. much, very much low end power and power all the way from 3000rpm till rev limiter at 9500rpm. but, as I remember, I run once in the rev limit, and that was because i wanted to look if the engine works at high rpms as well.

the bad side of the adventure: the rider had severe problems, yes me. it seems that I suffer something like a "sea sickness" or "motion sickness". hard accelerating or braking makes me feel like %$(&. even the next day i feel some dizziness. I am curoius if I will find help.

sorry for the bad quality of the pics.

mec

[Ecosse]

thanks for the update mec. sorry to hear of your sickness... but i'll trade you for the low fever and head cold i'm running right now.   

how big is that track, and do you have any more shots of it?

great news on the handling front, congratulations! 

[syth82]

I wish I could afford a guzzi with duct tape on the seat..... 

[andy750]

"in the evening i fixed the problem with the gear lever. the cause was a loose 6mm bolt in the gear change mechanism behind the gear cover, blocking the inner part of the gear change shaft."

Same thing happened to me....3 times now  ....first time in Mexico, second time in Austria on the Glossenglocker and third time near Boston...all the K4. Hopefully problem solved now.

Great ride report and the bike sounds excellent to drive. This has been a great thread start to finish!

cheers
Andy

[mec]

I wish I could afford a guzzi with duct tape on the seat..... 

take a look at the wheels, the rear shocks, the carbs, not to mention all the engine internals

how big is that track, and do you have any more shots of it?

hello ecosse,

it is a small track, best lap time of my fellows was achieved by klaus with his motoguzzi, clocked at 1min33´ .
i do not know, but believe that a good rider with a competitive 600ccm bike can do a low 1min20 time.
best of all, on monday we had the track for us alone. late in the afternoon three or four other bikers visited the track to do some laps.
on the downside is that the infrastructure was very blushfully.
you will not find something like a grand prix atmosphere, but the track is usefull to have fun with your fellow bikers and/or tune your bike in seclusion.

you will find more info here http://www.euroring.hu

all my pics attached

mec

[syth82]

I hope I didn't offend... Trust me, I would love to own a guzzi in any condition. One of my favorite bikes.

[HavocTurbo]

I hope I didn't offend... Trust me, I would love to own a guzzi in any condition. One of my favorite bikes.

Too late. You're fired.

[Ecosse]

looks nice from where i sit mec... and be thankful it lacks the gp feel!

thanks for the pix and link. small time tracks are too far and few in between.

[Frankencake]

I wish I could afford a guzzi with duct tape on the seat..... 

There's this guy I know who has a 850 Lemans.  For years, it sat uncovered in his front yard.  He moved and now it sits under a shed roof.  It's rusty and god only knows if the motor turns.  I have been trying to talk him out of it every time I see him, but no luck so far.  I will have that bike some day.  He doesn't deserve it.  Proof:  When it was sitting in his yard rusting away, there was, not 20 feet away, an overseas shipping container that was half empty. 
I'm getting mad now.  I'll stop.

[mec]

further work is done:

starter machine electro powered by Makita 220V, 2200kw.
chain is from a pocket bike, aluminium from crap, tig welded and/or machined on the lathe/mill.

picture 3 and 4:
my kröber tacho lacked accuracy. i decided to go for a nova rev counter http://www.mmb-shop.com/mmb_de.php
this is a small (d=48mm, d=80 also available) device, very lightweight too.

mec

[Terry in Australia]

As always Mec, beautiful work mate, is that a variable speed motor on the starter? I imagine it is, an angle grinder (for instance) wouldn't be too good, it'd robably just grind a chunk out of the tire, ha ha! Cheers, Terry.  

[Ecosse]

mec, take my word for it; i'm shaking my head once again in disbelief. very clever starter and workmanship is unsurpassed. engine turned headlight bracket.

even non-gear heads with an aesthetic eye have to appreciate your creations.

[mec]

As always Mec, beautiful work mate, is that a variable speed motor on the starter? I imagine it is, an angle grinder (for instance) wouldn't be too good, it'd robably just grind a chunk out of the tire, ha ha! Cheers, Terry.  

this is an angle grinder and does not have a variable speed motor. it has constant speed and the chain gear ratio is approx 2.5:1.
it works fine starting my egli-cb. the big advantage over my starter (driven by a car wheel) is, that there is no need for a helping hand. you can start the bike all alone.
i am curious if the starter is able to start big twins like guzzis or ducs. soon i will know.

mec, take my word for it; i'm shaking my head once again in disbelief. very clever starter and workmanship is unsurpassed. engine turned headlight bracket.

even non-gear heads with an aesthetic eye have to appreciate your creations.

thx


mec

[Terry in Australia]

That's good to know mate, I've got a couple of cheap chinese angle grinders and some old cam chains and sprockets here, (although I'll need to buy a smaller sprocket for the motor) so when I finish building my 1060cc engine I'll copy your starter, that'll save the wife having to push me up and down the street to fire up the beast! (although Lord knows, she needs the exercise.............) Cheers, Terry.

[Ecosse]

That's good to know mate, I've got a couple of cheap chinese angle grinders and some old cam chains and sprockets here, (although I'll need to buy a smaller sprocket for the motor) so when I finish building my 1060cc engine I'll copy your starter, that'll save the wife having to push me up and down the street to fire up the beast! (although Lord knows, she needs the exercise.............) Cheers, Terry.

  i take it she doesn't log onto this forum then. 

[Soos]

Hey Mec, need an assistant?!!
Have tools will travel...
J/K 

I wish I had a neighbor like you.
That work... from the hand made frame to the fairing mounts(nice one there BTW),this starter and everything in between.
Awesome build thread, AWESOME bike!

What you have made is very nice, I doubt there are too many that could/would do their own bike to this level.

I missed it(or forgot) what is the size of the motor again?



l8r

[Brookesy]

G'day from Oz, Mec,

Excellent work mate.
Something to aspire to, although i don't have the equipment or skills to achieve it, an Egli replica is high on my list of desirable CB750's. I can relax now and tell myself "it's been done already". That way i won't feel so bad.

Keep up the "show and tell" i enjoy seeing others achieve great results

Brookesy

[MRieck]

there had been troubles with the Ti bolts in combination with Ti nuts.
despite having greased all the threads, it was not possible to torque the nuts in a proper manner.
torquing to the right torque, the nuts made a crackling sound and had been tight, but the bolt was loose 

I replaced these nuts with AL7075 nuts and everything was fine.

the next days I will track test the bike. but I am not sure, if it will be possible to do a lot of laps because the front fork seems to be not stiff enough, maybe the springs are too soft.

iwlyk (I will let you know)

mec

I have run into the same "creaking" problems when torquing steel rod bolts into Ti rods. This occurs near the maximum torque point. I have tried different lubes (from Moly paste, ARP, Anti Seize, Redline assembly lube etc). Nothing was ever...what I would consider....perfect.

[Ecosse]

does this creaking happen with aluminum rods and titanium bolts? also, back in the 80's alum rods had a tendency to stretch so frequent tear downs were necessary, not to practical for road use. is this still true? sounds as though Ti is not ideal for fasteners in this application; what about other situations? finally, forgive my ignorance, but what material are the al7075 nuts?

sorry to be asking so many questions.

[sangyo soichiro]

I know quality workmanship when I see it.  I see it!  This is fabulous.

[mec]

does this creaking happen with aluminum rods and titanium bolts? also, back in the 80's alum rods had a tendency to stretch so frequent tear downs were necessary, not to practical for road use. is this still true? sounds as though Ti is not ideal for fasteners in this application; what about other situations? finally, forgive my ignorance, but what material are the al7075 nuts?

sorry to be asking so many questions.

I think alu rods and Ti bolts should work fine. on the other hand, I do not prefere alu rods (despite the fact, that I had the RC golden rods in my 1000ccm engine in the late 70ies and had no problem at all. but the bike was sold after one racing season!). today rods of best steel or Ti rods are the best choice (see the all new 1098er or 1198er ducatis, desmosedici....they do have Ti rods or at least there are performance parts like Ti rods available from the factory).
you write "road use": for sure al-rods work fine for all day road use your complete lifetime. however the stresses put on the rods racing the engine near the redline continually will do no good to all the internals of the engine.

knowing how to use Ti, we have to learn something about the physical/mechanical characteristics of Ti:
~ half the weight of steel (however beneath twice as heavy as Aluminium)
~ elastical (not the best choice to use as frame tubings)
~ much friction (bad for transmission or gears)
~ bad thermical conduction (hard to machine because all drills, milling cutters smolder and get blunt)

Al 7075: there are plenty of Aluminium alloys. Al 7075, here often called aircraft aluminium, is very hard and comes close to steel regarding his strength.
see more: http://www.suppliersonline.com/propertypages/7075.asp#physical



I just came back from another track test at Pannoniaring/hungary.
the bike went fine. there was one complaint I had: in some turns I could feel a slight uneasiness coming more from the rear wheel, maybe from the front fork too. I believe that there is work to do in finetuning the spring and damper settings of the rear wheel.

another decision has been made: 13th and 14th of june I will race the bike at a competition in "Schleizer Dreieck", and from 19th till 21th of june we will race in Spa-Francorchamps at the bikersclassic event (http://www.bikersclassics.be/).
the 4 hours endurance race we will compete with a Moto Guzzi. the free sessions I will do with my Egli.

mec

[mec]

I missed it(or forgot) what is the size of the motor again?



l8r

bike engine is a CB 750F, 1000ccm with the bigger pistons now.


update:
the new starter engine does not have any problems starting a ducati v-twin engine.
some tech datas for all copiing this starter: the two rollers do have 65mm diameter, transmission ratio is 14:30 (14 teeth sprocket on the grinder, 30teeth on the rollers, distance between rollers 360mm).

both 30teeth sprockets I was able to mill with my small cnc from aluminium.

this led me to another idea:
test ride last week I started with 17t sprocket and 48t at the rear. this was too short, slow. all turns in 4th or 5th gear. I replaced the 17t and mounted a 18t sprocket. this was much better, it seemed that this transmission ratio was good for the 700m straight with the finish line.
but what to do on high speed circuits?

searching google and www I found some interesting sites, showing how to draw the sprocket teeth for our chains (520, 525, 530). I tried this myself, but the result was not really good, not satiesfying. further searches done and I found a dxf file with 42-46 teeth chainwheels. these drawings seemed to come from an autocad programm and compared to my existing rearwheel sprockets, they should work fine.
I modified the wheel (inner diameter, mounting and lightening holes) to my demands and then the mill had to do the rest of the work.

I am sure, they will work fine.

mec

[Ecosse]

Thanks mec. are your rear sprockets aluminum? and was it cheaper to cut your own rather than source them from a supplier?

(btw: if you want your egli to be in the botm running you need to accept the nomination in that thread)