Topic: Black Barbie is not worth as much...

[greasy j]

Now that all of this "black Barbie, white Barbie" crap has started, I wonder what would have happened if the WHITE Barbie was marked down?  I bet a weeks pay absolutely nothing would have been said or done.  But because the BLACK barbie was marked down, it's become a racial issue.  I wonder what would happen if someone were to try to start "White History Month" oh, no! Can't do that, it would be racist.  Instead of the NAACP we have the NAAWP oh, no! Can't do that, it would be racist.
I'm sorry, I'm just fed up with the whole ball game.

I think the whole black history/white history thing is ridiculous. there is American history, which includes african americans. and within which there should be the history of african americans. a groups contributions are not well represented a lot of times, so we try to fix it by creating a new category.

it's a short term solution, the best thing would be to develop a larger perspective instead of trying to divvy up history between groups.

if you think about it these band aids are mostly to fix wounded pride. which is a problem. the circumstances pertaining to african descended peoples in america are different from other groups and it takes time for the effects to wear off. slavery was only a hundred and something yrs ago. nothing historically. segregation ended practically yesterday.

other groups came here with strong bonds of family, culture, religion. this is very important for a groups cooperative success. this was all stripped away from the west africans which were brought to america against their will and had that will utterly broken. plus, in order to justify using chattel slavery, which was always controversial, the people in charge created racial theories of black inferiority. these ideas have not left us. they can be deeply ingrained and things like this take a long time to wear off.

if you think about it every month is white history month. and I'm not for short term solutions like black history month and affirmative action except for maybe in the short term. but to really level the playing field we would have to undo that which cannot be undone. how do you fix the wounded pride of a whole group?

but more and more the newer generations are willing to leave poisonous racist attitudes behind. which gives me hope...

[greasy j]

I notice negative italian stereotypes all the time. on those 'sell your gold' commercials, baa-da bing! on pizza boxes w/ giant curly moustaches. super mario bros. (italian plumbers runnin through the sewers)

thing is italians as a group are not in a position to be defensive. it's just kinda silly no big deal. but, if we were being constantly attacked on a self esteem level these things would be a bit more painful. make sense?

now imagine it from a point of view where your self worth is constantly in question because of social ideas of inferiority. even if no one says it openly, a lot of people still think and make decisions based on these theories. see the diff?

[razor02097]

I think black history month itself is racist... not all black people are African decent.  Not all black people's ancestors where slaves.  Not all black people eat the foods all the cafeterias and restraints serve for black history month...it is stereotyping.  Honestly it would be so much better to get a broader prospective of the race and focus on a better understanding of their CULTURE!  You know the way some schools did it before all black people became "African Americans". You can't please everyone.  For those non African American who have gone through nonsense that has nothing to do with you and where grouped in as African American just cause the color of your skin... Thank you for tolerating all the naive politically correct crap.

[/rant]

Yes I have friends that are black, no not all of them are of African descent.  Some of them become insulted if you call them African American.
MLK Jr. was a very smart man... "Judge me not by the color of my skin, but by the content of my character"  This works for black, white, tan, green, yellow, blue, red...

[razor02097]

I notice negative italian stereotypes all the time. on those 'sell your gold' commercials, baa-da bing! on pizza boxes w/ giant curly moustaches. super mario bros. (italian plumbers runnin through the sewers)

thing is italians as a group are not in a position to be defensive. it's just kinda silly no big deal. but, if we were being constantly attacked on a self esteem level these things would be a bit more painful. make sense?

now imagine it from a point of view where your self worth is constantly in question because of social ideas of inferiority. even if no one says it openly, a lot of people still think and make decisions based on these theories. see the diff?

yup.  Anyone who has ever been to Italy will quickly realize that spaghetti isn't served with meat sauce,  Pizza isn't what you think,  ice cream isn't.  Italians don't drive Ferraris, say "forgettabodit" or "mama mia!", that the cities are beautiful and that Culatello is delicious.

[Laminar]

or "mama mia!"

Yes they do.

[razor02097]

or "mama mia!"

Yes they do.

Hate to break it to you but it is yet another stereotype.

[Laminar]

or "mama mia!"

Yes they do.

Hate to break it to you but it is yet another stereotype.

So the Italians that I've spent time with that say, "Mama mia!" aren't actually real people?

[syth82]

or "mama mia!"

Yes they do.

Hate to break it to you but it is yet another stereotype.

So the Italians that I've spent time with that say, "Mama mia!" aren't actually real people?

[razor02097]

or "mama mia!"

Yes they do.

Hate to break it to you but it is yet another stereotype.

So the Italians that I've spent time with that say, "Mama mia!" aren't actually real people?

Your being serious?  Gawd I hope not... please tell me your trying to f with me?

[Laminar]

So the Italians that I've spent time with that say, "Mama mia!" aren't actually real people?

Your being serious?  Gawd I hope not... please tell me your trying to f with me?

My company has a Milan branch, and a few Italians work here in the office. I've heard it said before. I remember because I texted my wife letting her know my life is complete now that I've heard an Italian say, "Mama mia."

[Old75_ratafe]

Just wow...  Just a curious J I'm gonna assume you picked your name because you work on your bikes alot right?  And thats not meant to be offensive but I do find it a slightly ironic if you picked it for another reason.

[seaweb11]

someone was going to say it

[Old75_ratafe]

I know I know it was me this time.  I was gonna let you get it SW but I figured you already had a rough enough week 

[razor02097]

So the Italians that I've spent time with that say, "Mama mia!" aren't actually real people?

Your being serious?  Gawd I hope not... please tell me your trying to f with me?

My company has a Milan branch, and a few Italians work here in the office. I've heard it said before. I remember because I texted my wife letting her know my life is complete now that I've heard an Italian say, "Mama mia."

lol

I guess it is possible but my great grandparents came to the US from Italy, I still know family over there, I have 2 Italian friends and I speak a little bit of Italian myself. 

[Laminar]

I speak a little bit of Italian myself. 

Me too. "Mama mia!"

[razor02097]

I speak a little bit of Italian myself.  

Me too. "Mama mia!"

ridendo ho fato altto fuori  

[Caaveman82]

There is not a lot of great white American history to celebrate.

We came to America. Fought the Americans that lived here and drove them into camps. Founded the country on tobacco Then we fought the British. Then we treated all immigrants that came here like crap and made them work for slave labor. Then the North and the South got in a fight because some people didn't want to give up their slaves. Then we had a World War. Then we had a second World War. Then we had a time frame where we didn't have war so we concentrated on treating black people like subhumans. Then we had a war in Korea. Then things were okay for a couple years, until we decided to go to Vietnam, oh hey now we are totally corrupt. The corruption continues as we become a super power and police the world for a while. Then we fund a country to fight another country for us. AIDS starts to run rampant. More corruption, more corruption, more corruption. Gulf War. More corruption. Iraqi Freedom. More corruption. Health care bill passes. More corruption. Black Barbies sell at a discount.

Not much to know. I don't know about you but even as early as 6th grade our history books really bothered me. Even as a kid I was questioning the moral fortitude of the country we used to be and have become.

[razor02097]

There is not a lot of great white American history to celebrate.

We came to America. Fought the Americans that lived here and drove them into camps. Founded the country on tobacco Then we fought the British. Then we treated all immigrants that came here like crap and made them work for slave labor. Then the North and the South got in a fight because some people didn't want to give up their slaves. Then we had a World War. Then we had a second World War. Then we had a time frame where we didn't have war so we concentrated on treating black people like subhumans. Then we had a war in Korea. Then things were okay for a couple years, until we decided to go to Vietnam, oh hey now we are totally corrupt. The corruption continues as we become a super power and police the world for a while. Then we fund a country to fight another country for us. AIDS starts to run rampant. More corruption, more corruption, more corruption. Gulf War. More corruption. Iraqi Freedom. More corruption. Health care bill passes. More corruption. Black Barbies sell at a discount.

Not much to know. I don't know about you but even as early as 6th grade our history books really bothered me. Even as a kid I was questioning the moral fortitude of the country we used to be and have become.

That was very distasteful.  Also the Korean war was before Vietnam

I for one am very grateful of the freedoms I have.  The freedoms thousands of brave American soldiers fought and died for.  This country was founded on the principles of a government that didn't involve a crown.  I don't condone what happened to the native Americans nor how the African slaves where forced to work on farms for no pay and little food.

HOWEVER

My ancestors where not part of any of that.  I appreciate the northern union defeating the southern confederate to free the slaves.  

We where involved in the first World war only to help our allies.  

We where basically forced into the second world war because of the unprovoked attack in 1941 on pearl harbor.  We ended up helping the allied forces but mostly was fighting the Japanese who attacked us because we the United States halted shipments to Japan because of the invasion of French Indochina.

The Korean war really was a cluster $%& when china decided to help the communist north Korea.  Basically north Korea tried to invade our allies the south Koreans.  We again helped our allies.  Along with almost everyone in the world.  It was China and North Korea against everyone.  Many men fought and died for maintaining freedom of the south Koreans.  Still today Korea is devided into a democratic south and a communist north.

The Vietnam war was about a political conflict between the French and the Viet Minh... was was really stupid (I think) is the fact that the US, UK and the Soviet union got involved taking back Vietnam because the french didn't have the means to do so themselves... Again China stepped in for their Vietnamese allies and the war turned really bad.

The war on terror was mainly to take the fight to the terrorist Al-Qaeda.  It is a very very different war as the enemy don't have uniforms nor do they use traditional tactics.  They don't have problems strapping bombs to woman and children sending them in to American troops just to blow them up.  Its discussing.  They don't care about human life.  We stayed out of Israel's war until we where blindsided with the 9/11/01 attacks on our world trade centers killing many and causing massive panic.  

Say what you want, you have the freedom to do so.  However it would be nice not to downplay everything this country is about just to try to prove a moot point.

[Caaveman82]

There is not a lot of great white American history to celebrate.

We came to America. Fought the Americans that lived here and drove them into camps. Founded the country on tobacco Then we fought the British. Then we treated all immigrants that came here like crap and made them work for slave labor. Then the North and the South got in a fight because some people didn't want to give up their slaves. Then we had a World War. Then we had a second World War. Then we had a time frame where we didn't have war so we concentrated on treating black people like subhumans. Then we had a war in Korea. Then things were okay for a couple years, until we decided to go to Vietnam, oh hey now we are totally corrupt. The corruption continues as we become a super power and police the world for a while. Then we fund a country to fight another country for us. AIDS starts to run rampant. More corruption, more corruption, more corruption. Gulf War. More corruption. Iraqi Freedom. More corruption. Health care bill passes. More corruption. Black Barbies sell at a discount.

Not much to know. I don't know about you but even as early as 6th grade our history books really bothered me. Even as a kid I was questioning the moral fortitude of the country we used to be and have become.

That was very distasteful.  Also the Korean war was before Vietnam

I for one am very grateful of the freedoms I have.  The freedoms thousands of brave American soldiers fought and died for.  This country was founded on the principles of a government that didn't involve a crown.  I don't condone what happened to the native Americans nor how the African slaves where forced to work on farms for no pay and little food.

HOWEVER

My ancestors where not part of any of that.  I appreciate the northern union defeating the southern confederate to free the slaves. 

We where involved in the first World war only to help our allies. 

We where basically forced into the second world war because of the unprovoked attack in 1941 on pearl harbor.  We ended up helping the allied forces but mostly was fighting the Japanese who attacked us because we the United States halted shipments to Japan because of the invasion of French Indochina.

The Korean war really was a cluster $%& when china decided to help the communist north Korea.  Basically north Korea tried to invade our allies the south Koreans.  We again helped our allies.  Along with almost everyone in the world.  It was China and North Korea against everyone.  Many men fought and died for maintaining freedom of the south Koreans.  Still today Korea is devided into a democratic south and a communist north.

The Vietnam war was about a political conflict between the French and the Viet Minh... was was really stupid (I think) is the fact that the US, UK and the Soviet union got involved taking back Vietnam because the french didn't have the means to do so themselves... Again China stepped in for their Vietnamese allies and the war turned really bad.

The war on terror was mainly to take the fight to the terrorist Al-Qaeda.  It is a very very different war as the enemy don't have uniforms nor do they use traditional tactics.  They don't have problems strapping bombs to woman and children sending them in to American troops just to blow them up.  Its discussing.  They don't care about human life.  We stayed out of Israel's war until we where blindsided with the 9/11/01 attacks on our world trade centers killing many and causing massive panic. 

Say what you want, you have the freedom to do so.  However it would be nice not to downplay everything this country is about just to try to prove a moot point.

Thanks buddy I know my military history. Re-read, I put Korea before Viet Nam.

It is not really a moot point. I love my country too, #$%* I'm a veteran, but the fact of the matter is we have a sketchy past. You call it a moot point to try and discredit my opinion, but I see through you sir. I know where I live and realize what freedoms I have that others don't and I appreciate it big time, enough to give four years of my life, but that does not change the past or where we are headed.

[razor02097]

There is not a lot of great white American history to celebrate.

We came to America. Fought the Americans that lived here and drove them into camps. Founded the country on tobacco Then we fought the British. Then we treated all immigrants that came here like crap and made them work for slave labor. Then the North and the South got in a fight because some people didn't want to give up their slaves. Then we had a World War. Then we had a second World War. Then we had a time frame where we didn't have war so we concentrated on treating black people like subhumans. Then we had a war in Korea. Then things were okay for a couple years, until we decided to go to Vietnam, oh hey now we are totally corrupt. The corruption continues as we become a super power and police the world for a while. Then we fund a country to fight another country for us. AIDS starts to run rampant. More corruption, more corruption, more corruption. Gulf War. More corruption. Iraqi Freedom. More corruption. Health care bill passes. More corruption. Black Barbies sell at a discount.

Not much to know. I don't know about you but even as early as 6th grade our history books really bothered me. Even as a kid I was questioning the moral fortitude of the country we used to be and have become.

That was very distasteful.  Also the Korean war was before Vietnam

I for one am very grateful of the freedoms I have.  The freedoms thousands of brave American soldiers fought and died for.  This country was founded on the principles of a government that didn't involve a crown.  I don't condone what happened to the native Americans nor how the African slaves where forced to work on farms for no pay and little food.

HOWEVER

My ancestors where not part of any of that.  I appreciate the northern union defeating the southern confederate to free the slaves. 

We where involved in the first World war only to help our allies. 

We where basically forced into the second world war because of the unprovoked attack in 1941 on pearl harbor.  We ended up helping the allied forces but mostly was fighting the Japanese who attacked us because we the United States halted shipments to Japan because of the invasion of French Indochina.

The Korean war really was a cluster $%& when china decided to help the communist north Korea.  Basically north Korea tried to invade our allies the south Koreans.  We again helped our allies.  Along with almost everyone in the world.  It was China and North Korea against everyone.  Many men fought and died for maintaining freedom of the south Koreans.  Still today Korea is devided into a democratic south and a communist north.

The Vietnam war was about a political conflict between the French and the Viet Minh... was was really stupid (I think) is the fact that the US, UK and the Soviet union got involved taking back Vietnam because the french didn't have the means to do so themselves... Again China stepped in for their Vietnamese allies and the war turned really bad.

The war on terror was mainly to take the fight to the terrorist Al-Qaeda.  It is a very very different war as the enemy don't have uniforms nor do they use traditional tactics.  They don't have problems strapping bombs to woman and children sending them in to American troops just to blow them up.  Its discussing.  They don't care about human life.  We stayed out of Israel's war until we where blindsided with the 9/11/01 attacks on our world trade centers killing many and causing massive panic. 

Say what you want, you have the freedom to do so.  However it would be nice not to downplay everything this country is about just to try to prove a moot point.

Thanks buddy I know my military history. Re-read, I put Korea before Viet Nam.

It is not really a moot point. I love my country too, #$%* I'm a veteran, but the fact of the matter is we have a sketchy past. You call it a moot point to try and discredit my opinion, but I see through you sir. I know where I live and realize what freedoms I have that others don't and I appreciate it big time, enough to give four years of my life, but that does not change the past or where we are headed.

Your correct I mis read the order of the 2 wars.  It was the paragraph or font that I must have skipped a sentence.

I thank you for your service.  I didn't call it a moot point to discredit you I called it a moot point because we really don't celebrate white history anyway. 

Basically putting all wars into 1 sentence and grouping it in with corruption I believe was distasteful.  It was my opinion about the written content.

[Caaveman82]

You say tomato...

[razor02097]

You say tomato...

Argreed

[greasy j]

you guys are just bickering now. not very constuctive.

everyone is of african descent

and if I nicknamed myself I would be 'chainsaw' or 'snake'. where I grew up everyone calls me greasy. not my choice. there were 4 different josh's. the other josh's ended up as 'shoes' afro-bath', etc. I used to hate it. but now I've embraced it. online at least. no one calls me that in oakland cept for people from seattle.

[Caaveman82]

you guys are just bickering now. not very constuctive.

Alright mom, goooooosh. 

Just a difference of opinion is all. No biggie.

[greasy j]

to further clarify the greasiness.

the greasy nickname may have been partially motivated by a silly slur (greasy wop)
but I think it was more because in high school I had Joe Strummer/Mike Ness hair. back when it was still punk to have greasy hair and people didn't ask you if you were into swing dancing. (puking blood smiley should be here) plus I was always messin w/ my #$%*in cb2hunid.

by the way did you guys know what wop means? with-out-passport. I don't have one myself (only been all over N America) so I am still a wop I guess. haha.

my girl is canadian, her dad finagled a social sec # for her and her sister, so they are both illegal technically, but both pay taxes, etc. one night at dinner an ignorant friend said about immigration "they should just send them all back". oh you mean Bre and her sister, too? "oh. no not you guys. you're canadian"

so it's just the non-white's we should send back, eh? nationalism and racism are 2 sides of the same coin.

racist say one person is better than another because of ethnicity. nationalists say one person is better; or more deserving of safety, security, happiness than another because of what side of an arbitrary line they were born on. hard to justify that kind of thinking with logic. it just comes down to an emotional response born of our primitive tribal instincts. instincts that do not serve us in the modern world.