Topic: Patina Hyena - 550/650 674cc Hybrid Cafe Build

[DaveBarbier]

Table of Contents:

550 Engine Teardown
  Valve Cover Stuck
  Clutch Cover Stuck
  Cases Split
  Pulling Primary Shaft
  Crank Plastigage
  Gasket Surfaces
  Soda Blasting Cases
  Alternator Rotor Removal
550 Engine Assembly
  Sealing Cases
  Sealing Cam Cover Pucks
  Motor In Frame
Start Up
Shimming Points Plate
Racing Idle Carb Issue
  Racing Idle Carb Solution
Choke Knob Relocation
Under Seat Open Triangle Wiring
Swing Arm Rebuild
Custom Rear Sets
Swing Arm Bolt Zerk Upgrade
All Balls Steering Neck Bearings
Key Switch Issue
  Key Switch Solution
Custom Seat #2
Stall Under Hard Breaking Issue
  Stall Under Hard Breaking Solution
Plug Caps/Wires/Coils Ohm Measurements
’82 650 Purchased
650 Engine Removal Teardown
  Stuck Head Washers Solution
  Stuck Cylinders Solution
  Clutch Locknut Wrench
Dual Disc Conversion
Pulling Internal Caliper Flare Fittings
Rough Running/Running on Two Cylinders Issue
  Rough Running/Running on Two Cylinders Solution
Recurring Headlight Low Beam Blowing/Smoking Issue
  (Issue Solved With Below Complete Rewire)
Motogadget m-Unit/Complete Rewire
  Wiring Finished
  Wiring Diagram
650 Motor Consumables Gathering & Assembly
  Cases Sealed
  Seals, O-Rings & Gaskets List
Fitting a 750 PAMCO Ignition to a 650
Degree a Cam and Check Valve to Piston Clearance
Weight Difference Between 650 and 550 Motors
Relocate Fuel Tank Bung
Custom CR26 Carb to 650 Head Spigots
Custom Speedo Drive Replacement Spacer
Magnetic Speedo Pickup Sensor Behind Sprocket Cover
Keyless Pushbutton Fuel Cap Cover
Start Up
Weight of 650 In Stripped 550 Frame
Fitting a Dyna S on a ‘79-‘82 CB650





Before:


After:



Hey guys, so if you've seen my other post about me finding a piece of a gear in my oil pan you'll know that I need to split my crankcase and replace the transmission...plus look around for other possible damage. In the oil pan aside from gear bits there was a sludge of what looked like mostly steel because it was ferrous. Is this normal? Today I removed the engine and now have it on my bench.

I just have questions on what I actually need to start on. Never done this before. I have a Clymer manual but it doesn't seem to really go into a lot of detail. I feel like I'm performing heart surgery with directions from a cereal box..."Step One: Perform surgery. Step Two: Clean up." My book just says, "Remove cylinder head, cylinders, and pistons..." Well, here just read it for yourself. Is this all I'm really doing? I feel like there would be way more in the book as far as steps and photos.

Also, what would need replacing? Head gasket and other gaskets? The little rubber pucks on the sides? I see I can check whether or not I need crank bearings with Plastigauge. What about sealing the cases back up? I've been reading people like to use Hondabond, not the HT kind. When I get the new tranny will I need to just cover it in oil or use assembly lube? I went to school for auto mechanics but that was 10 years ago so please just think of me as a mentally challenged bonobo. And as I start this I'm definitely going to be asking more questions here. Hopefully this'll also help some poor soul in the future. Thanks.




---
1978 Honda CB550K

[2strokeTrush]

Step one: unscrew your tappet valve covers and use a rubber band to hold the tappet up as you can bend a valve while you pull off the top end.  Cant tell you how many members have told me this before!  Head gasket and base gasket are a good thing to replace. not sure about the pucks though, Im still new to this to.  Here is my 2cents though.

Step two: Get a piece of cardboard and draw a picture of your top end looking down on it and as you carefully remove all the bolts place them through the cardboard on the drawing in the same place they are on the real thing. Something like this i did for my clutch cover...



 After this lift off the top cover and you can see the rockers and cam and chain. That will look like this..



Step three: Pull your plugs and drop a little oil down each cylinder. This will help you slide the jugs off when you get there.
Now to loosen your cam chain, find the 10mm nut below the intake on the block. loosen it and then move to the cam sprocket and loosen those two as well.  Tie up your chain so it doesn't fall down into the engine.  Your top end should now be free, as well as the jugs but mostly likely it stuck to the base gasket, give her a little pressure, but don't pry with anything strong.  You will break a fin or worse.   Hope that helped at least some, I'm still learning to.  Look it up on Youtube as well. good luck! Report back

[DaveBarbier]

Thanks 2strokeTrush, this helps a lot and it'll seem even more clear when I'm out with the bike.


---
1978 Honda CB550K

[DaveBarbier]

Also, what gasket sets do you guys recommend? I'm sure there are crap ones that I'd want to stay away from.


---
1978 Honda CB550K

[2strokeTrush]

Lots of members run "Vesrah" gasket sets.  I like to use gasket seal on top of that as well though.

[Bootsey]

It might help you to back off the cam chain tensioner before trying to get the cam chain out, should give a little more wriggle room.

You need to pop those black rubber pucks out, to get at the head nuts. You need to make sure you undo the nuts according to the sequence in the manual, to limit the chance of warping the head.

[MiGhost]

I am sure there will be some disagreement about this but.
If your only going into the cases for the transmission work. You do not need to pull the top end (Cylinders, Head) off. The trans is completely serviceable by removal of the bottom case, and there is no reason to mess with the rings, gaskets, or timing chain.

Pull the top case bolts loose. Then roll the engine over onto the head, and support the rear of the case with wood blocking. Once you have the cases open. If you find out that the damage is more severe. You can easily bolt the bottom back on to turn the engine right side up to remove the top end later.

While you are inside the cases take the chance to look at the starter clutch to see if you need to replace the springs, rollers, and caps. For the little that it will cost. It might be wise just to replace them while it is open.

[DaveBarbier]

Thanks MiGhost, I was at first hoping that could be done, but as I read more and watch videos I might just do the whole shebang. My head gasket is leaking a little anyway and I might lap the valves. Plus, it would give me an excuse to paint the motor.


---
1978 Honda CB550K

[DaveBarbier]

So I put a topic in the wanted section for a transmission, but in the meantime I saw this on eBay.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/360686188255

Considering that I really don't know what to look for in a transmission do you guys think this is a good deal? Seems alright but it looks like there maybe some pitting in the outside bearing races (assume that's what they are). But it's hard to tell.


---
1978 Honda CB550K

[dave500]

those bearings look fine,thats the outside of the race which gets sandwhiched between the cases,be better if the dogs and slots could be seen clearer?thats the important part,if the dog or slots are rounded that's when the transmission will jump out of gear or select false neutrals,some people don't do themselves any favours selling stuff,if he had of removed and or wire wheeled that sprocket it would look more tempting?

[DaveBarbier]

those bearings look fine,thats the outside of the race which gets sandwhiched between the cases,be better if the dogs and slots could be seen clearer?thats the important part,if the dog or slots are rounded that's when the transmission will jump out of gear or select false neutrals,some people don't do themselves any favours selling stuff,if he had of removed and or wire wheeled that sprocket it would look more tempting?

Yeah I know what you mean, when I sell things on eBay I clean the heck out of them and make sure I take good pictures.

It's hard to tell from the 4 pictures he has in the description but it apparently had under 9k miles and it seems pretty cheap for what it is. I can ask him if he'll take more close up shots.


---
1978 Honda CB550K

[dave500]

price is good,see if he has the shift forks aswell to make the deal?

[DaveBarbier]

He does have the shift forks and drum. I'm going to ask him if he'd give me a deal for both items. I've noticed sellers take their sweet time in responding to questions. But these seem to be in good condition also.

http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&alt=web&id=161055595292


---
1978 Honda CB550K

[DaveBarbier]

Ok, he eventually decided to tell me that one gear is cracked. Doesn't even say that in the description. Sucks for whomever might buy this.

I'm going to get this one instead. More money but it seems like it's in good shape. Mileage is unknown. Missing a couple needle bearings but I assume I can just use mine.

http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&alt=web&id=330913172129

If anyone sees anything wrong with it please let me know.


---
1978 Honda CB550K

[dave500]

pretty hard to crack a gear?might be a forge parting line?the untrained eye often thinks production marks are cracks?see if he can get a good clear close up of the crack?

[DaveBarbier]

pretty hard to crack a gear?might be a forge parting line?the untrained eye often thinks production marks are cracks?see if he can get a good clear close up of the crack?

Having this guy answer questions is like talking to a 14 year old girl while she's on her phone, it's like 1 or 2 word answers. In the ad you can see one of the teeth has a little chip in it. When I said the gear is cracked I meant the tooth.

Any thoughts on the other tranny I linked to? I just like he specifically says that it's in good shape with no signs of abuse or high miles.


---
1978 Honda CB550K

[dave500]

that listing is sold,you buy it?i see what you mean about 14 year old girl,the drum link shows the shift drum and forks with it displayed in a wrong orientation with the forks placed in the drum groove,not that itll hurt anything.

[DaveBarbier]

that listing is sold,you buy it?i see what you mean about 14 year old girl,the drum link shows the shift drum and forks with it displayed in a wrong orientation with the forks placed in the drum groove,not that itll hurt anything.

Haha, yup, I bought it. Out of the ones I saw I felt best about this one. Ok, so someone assembled it wrong after they removed it? I'll just be sure compare it with mine...and ask you guys of course before I seal anything up.

My plan is to just use which ever parts have the least amount of wear. That's ok to mix parts, right?

Last night I also bought some lapping compound, lapping tool, valve spring compressor, Loctite 518 for the case halves, stainless allen bolt set, Vesrah complete gasket kit...I think that's it. I just want to hit the ground running. I'm not the kind of guy to dwell and put things off.


---
1978 Honda CB550K

[calj737]

Make sure you use AntiSieze when installing the SS bolts, Dave. Lots of members have different recommendations for sealants other than LocTite 518, and where/when to use it.

If you're splitting the cases and taking down the top end, it's a great time to replace your cam chain as they are inexpensive. The tensioner is pricey as hell and hard to come by, but the chain is about $100. A new primary too is a great treat.

Your gasket set won't always come with the small rubber pucks under the rocker cover and for the head, so look at the parts fiche to compare what you should have, with what you pull apart. Even helpful to print out a few pages, then organize everything together and check off pieces from the prints as you remove them. Helps to keep things organized.

[DaveBarbier]

Make sure you use AntiSieze when installing the SS bolts, Dave. Lots of members have different recommendations for sealants other than LocTite 518, and where/when to use it.

If you're splitting the cases and taking down the top end, it's a great time to replace your cam chain as they are inexpensive. The tensioner is pricey as hell and hard to come by, but the chain is about $100. A new primary too is a great treat.

Your gasket set won't always come with the small rubber pucks under the rocker cover and for the head, so look at the parts fiche to compare what you should have, with what you pull apart. Even helpful to print out a few pages, then organize everything together and check off pieces from the prints as you remove them. Helps to keep things organized.

Anti seize, got it. And yeah, all yesterday I was looking between Hondabond, three bond, Loctite 518 and a bunch of other ones. I finally decided on that because I've heard many people say it's more forgiving and if there's excess that oozes into the crank case it won't harden. Seems there isn't an end all product that is known to be the best hands down. People have been having luck with all sort of products. And I like that the Loctite won't setup until it's pressed together. It gives me (a novice) more time.

Ok, I'll look into the new cam chain, primary (gear?) and a tensioner. The first metal bits in my previous post still might be tensioner shrapnel so that might have to be replaced anyway, despite the cost. And you'd replace the cam chain and primary gear even if wear isn't apparent?

This is the gasket set I got and what it comes with. I'll be sure to be thorough and organized when replacing everything. 
http://4into1.com/vesrah-complete-gasket-set-vg-155-honda-cb500-cb550/

This is becoming less daunting and more fun as it goes. I'm even planning on repainting the motor. It looks like garbage now and having it clean will help see if it leaks after.


---
1978 Honda CB550K

[calj737]

Not primary gear, primary chain. I hope you don't need a cam chain tensioner; they're as rare as hen's teeth. If you do, you'll likely have to surf ebay or forums for parted engine.

[DaveBarbier]

Oh, 2 Chainz, that makes sense. Yeah, I know about the tensioner. Before I took the motor out I was researching about replacing that with the motor still in. They're hard to find. I hope it's fine but we'll see.

What about assembly lube? After I put all this stuff in do I just coat with new oil before I close it all up? Or some assembly lube to help lubricate before the oil pump has time to get oil around to everything?


---
1978 Honda CB550K

[calj737]

Lube everywhere on the internals. As for the oil pump, after replacing the o-rings, usually immersed in oil to "prime" it is all that's suggested.

I know the list of "might as wells" sounds as if it's growing, but I always say, if I'm going through this effort and expense, then doing it now saves me time and money later. I'd rather have to undertake a rebuild once, then not again for 20 years. At least I will know with certainty the condition of the motor top to bottom. And there Is nothing more comforting to me than a solid engine beneath my butt when riding.

[DaveBarbier]

Lube everywhere on the internals.

So just using motor oil is enough? I remember in school my engine teacher had a white grease he used on cams for assembly.

I know the list of "might as wells" sounds as if it's growing, but I always say, if I'm going through this effort and expense, then doing it now saves me time and money later. I'd rather have to undertake a rebuild once, then not again for 20 years. At least I will know with certainty the condition of the motor top to bottom. And there Is nothing more comforting to me than a solid engine beneath my butt when riding.

I know what you mean. I'm now in the same mindset. It's a learning experience and I'll be proud when it's complete. And I'll know it's done right, as long as you guys are here to help, haha.


---
1978 Honda CB550K

[robvangulik]

Just fresh oil will do fine, a couple of minutes of running will get pressurized oil in all the right places  when you've done things right.