Topic: Patina Hyena - 550/650 674cc Hybrid Cafe Build

[Retro Rocket]

Yes, done more than my fair share of filleting fish, its all about the blade...

[DaveBarbier]

Headlight is still going out! Is my ground not good enough? I don't smell any burning wires but after about a two hour ride my buddy looks back and sees that it's out. Any ideas for me to check?

[DaveBarbier]

Also, on my way home just now I blew my main fuse. Thank god I already got up the hill right by my house.

Battery is charged up to 13.91 volts.

And it's just the low beam. But that I think is just because that's what I had on. I assume after a while if I had my high beam on that would blow too.

[RAFster122s]

Might have a short in the harness.  With a good digital vom check the resistance of the ground wire and see if the connections are good. Then see what the resistance is between the negative terminal and the end of your ground wire.

Are you seeing good voltage at the headlamp.  I would suspect that your regulator is letting the voltage go too high blowing the low beam. Halogen bulbs don't tolerate overvoltage too well.

You can take a lighter gauge wire to get your voltage reading outside the headlamp bucket in a spare connector or just use some brass tubing the probes are a snug fit. Cover the positive vom probe so you are not risking an accident if your positive connections hits the bike's metal.

[DaveBarbier]

Also, on my way home just now I blew my main fuse. Thank god I already got up the hill right by my house. stock harness and wiring, Dave?

Battery is charged up to 13.91 volts. so that's a tad high 

Headlight is still going out! Is my ground not good enough? I don't smell any burning wires but after about a two hour ride my buddy looks back and sees that it's out. Any ideas for me to check?

Of course, start with the fuse itself. Is it the correct Amperage? Is your wiring stock? What is the Wattage rating of that unit (curiosity only?)

Stock wiring harness but with modifications. I rewired the back half of the bike when I was making the battery box under the seat. Stock colors and new connectors from CycleTerminal.com

I'm also using a Shorai LFX14A2. Is 13.91v a little high? From Shawn at Shorai: "Please verify the charging system output measures 13.6-14.4V at the battery when the engine is running at a high idle (~2000rpm).   The charging system should not drop below 13.1V or above 15.2V at any rpm."

Now, my battery did just go to about 7 volts last week when I was trying to time the sh*t Daiichi points. I charged it back up full and it didn't seem like it was damaged, could be wrong though. But I've been having the bulb blowing problem for the last few weeks.

Yup, correct fuse (15amp). What's the wattage rating of the unit? You mean the bulb? It's a 55/60 watt H4.

I've been considering one of the Cognitomoto 20/30 watt LED bulbs for less of a draw.

[DaveBarbier]

Ah yes, I see the difference. Battery read 13.91v while resting. At idle it's about the same, maybe a little less...like 13.7. At about 6k RPM it seems to cap at 14.8volts.

Also measured the resistance of the ground wire from where the headlight bulb connects to back to the negative terminal and I'm reading 00.0-00.1 ohms. Good ground, yeah?

[DaveBarbier]

Ground appears fine. Battery is overcharging though. Shouldn't see more than 14.4v normally, though it can take up to 14.8v. Stock Regulator or did you swap for a Ricks?

Swapped for Ricks. Oh, and I forgot to say that I found why my main fuse was blowing. A worn wire to the key switch was shorting on the steering neck. Fixed that. That wouldn't have anything to do with the headlight issue, would it? I don't really see how. I think it's an isolated issue that just started happening yesterday.

[DaveBarbier]

Well, if you've got a bare wire shorting out the main fuse, it would not surprise me to see other circuits tied thru the key blowing.

From your Ricks, there's a loose BLK wire that is the 12v sensing wire. Where is it connected? I'd like you to take a meter reading of the battery (resting voltage) and check that BLK wire connection. Compare those 2 readings. Often, the R/R reads a lower voltage due to resistance thru the connectors and harness than the battery actually has. This can cause overcharging of the battery because the R/R falsely believes the battery is lower than it is. Make sense?

Key on resting voltage, right? Battery is 12.8v sensing wire is 12.46v. Is cleaning my connectors in my future?

That black sensing wire is connected into a dual connector that goes into the main harness. Tied into the winker relay, rear stop switch, horn, etc. It's hooked up the same way as the stock unit. Does that answer your question?

[DaveBarbier]

I'm looking through my connectors and I see quite a few have corrosion already. I crimped and soldered these connections. I'm thinking I may have not completely burned off all the flux and that could be causing corrosion. I probably should have bought the crimper and just crimped as others have recommended. Any good way of cleaning these things? Small brass brush and electric cleaner?

[DaveBarbier]

That .5v isn't the end of the world until you get to the upper limit of the charging profile. I'd rather see a .1v difference personally, but, by the time you run through the stock connectors etc .5v is reasonable.

Realize: RED brings power from the battery, thru the fuse, then to the KEY. BLK is switched at the key, and all its travels and connections occur before you start grabbing a reading off it. If you have any charging problems in the near future, I'd reconnect the sensing wire closer to the key switch with a custom connection. This way, you're only losing the voltage thru the key before you start regulating it.

A .17 caliber rifle brush available at a sporting goods store, some Electrical cleaner spray, and some dielectric grease ought to be in your tool box. Brings them up shiny and bright 

So, are you saying that this might not be my problem as that I should be looking elsewhere for the headlight blowing problem?

All's I got is a 9 and 45, dang. I'll go grab a couple of those brushes, sounds perfect.

I'm cleaning a few connectors now just because I'm here. I totally see what you're saying about moving the sensing wire. I'll probably end up doing that anyway this week. I can tap it right into the new connector for the key switch.

[DaveBarbier]

If you have any charging problems in the near future, I'd reconnect the sensing wire closer to the key switch with a custom connection. This way, you're only losing the voltage thru the key before you start regulating it.

Just measured the voltage up at the key switch and it's pretty much exactly the same voltage as the battery. Thanks for this tip, I'll definitely move the sensing wire up there. I have a key switch saver relay so that's my black wire, hope that's not an issue.

EDIT: Oh, and I've been looking at the M-Unit and drooling. I might bite the bullet and get one soon. It seems so easy and that way I'd completely redo the wiring on the bike and make sure everything is perfect. Simplicity is a huge part of reliability in my opinion.

[DaveBarbier]

Ok, so I'm definitely doing the M-Unit. I can't take it anymore, watching videos and looking at beautiful wiring is killing me. My plan is to keep all electrical components – blinkers, horn, etc. I wanted to redo the wiring completely from scratch. With the M-Unit is this a tall order?

I'd like to get new wire (maybe the wiring kit from Motogadget?) and also the M-Button for more of a clutter free environment. Thoughts?

What about switches? I'd like to use the Motogadget stuff but they're pretty expensive. Any other nice switches you guys recommend?

[madmtnmotors]

I'm looking through my connectors and I see quite a few have corrosion already. I crimped and soldered these connections. I'm thinking I may have not completely burned off all the flux and that could be causing corrosion. I probably should have bought the crimper and just crimped as others have recommended. Any good way of cleaning these things? Small brass brush and electric cleaner?

Plus one on the double crimp tool. According to Hondaman, the double crimp is a "gas tight" connection and is corrosion resistant due to the fact that the connection is so tight that corrosive elements can't even get into the crimp:

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,148188.msg1688494.html#msg1688494


I can refurbish the entire stock harness in about two weeks, working evenings and weekends:

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,137351.msg1549191.html#msg1549191

[DaveBarbier]

I think I will do the m-button just because it'll really cut down on wire clutter. I kinda want to do a complete 180. I won't be keeping the stock controls, I'll try and find some nice small switches. It seems like the m-unit really shines with momentary switches.

As for the McMaster wiring, do you have your own color scheme you use or do you try to keep the stock colors? I kind of don't know where to begin. Aside from buying the m-unit first I guess and making a wiring diagram?

[DaveBarbier]

I'm looking through my connectors and I see quite a few have corrosion already. I crimped and soldered these connections. I'm thinking I may have not completely burned off all the flux and that could be causing corrosion. I probably should have bought the crimper and just crimped as others have recommended. Any good way of cleaning these things? Small brass brush and electric cleaner?

Plus one on the double crimp tool. According to Hondaman, the double crimp is a "gas tight" connection and is corrosion resistant due to the fact that the connection is so tight that corrosive elements can't even get into the crimp:

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,148188.msg1688494.html#msg1688494


I can refurbish the entire stock harness in about two weeks, working evenings and weekends:

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,137351.msg1549191.html#msg1549191

Ok, that crimp is nice. I'll be doing this too.

Thanks

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

Dave,

Are you going to re-wire the bike before or after the 650 engine swap?

[DaveBarbier]

Dave,

Are you going to re-wire the bike before or after the 650 engine swap?

Before. Want to get it all buttoned up before the engine goes in. It deserves some nice new wiring!

By the way, I ordered the 674cc kit .

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

Nice. My engine is fully diassembled. The head and cylinders are about to go to blasting and the the machinist.

Trying to find a new output shift seal.

[DaveBarbier]

Nice. My engine is fully diassembled. The head and cylinders are about to go to blasting and the the machinist.

Trying to find a new output shift seal.

Are these hard to find? I haven't even looked for seals yet. Looks like we're pretty much at the same stages.

[70CB750]

Nice. My engine is fully diassembled. The head and cylinders are about to go to blasting and the the machinist.

Trying to find a new output shift seal.

Are these hard to find? I haven't even looked for seals yet. Looks like we're pretty much at the same stages.

Plenty of places carry those:

http://www.cb750supply.com/products/4/engine

25x62x7 is the size I believe.

[DaveBarbier]

These are the ones I use:
http://cognitomoto.com/collections/motogadget/products/m-switch-3-push-button-housing-7-8-black-black

If you have smaller hands, these are quite nice too:
http://cognitomoto.com/collections/motogadget/products/motogadget-m-switch-mini-push-button-housing-7-8-black
And those are "pre-wired" form the buttons.

It's hard to find the stock striped colors, so I use solid versions of the stock colors as much as I can. If you use the m-button, I'd suggest following the MotoG color scheme then. And last knock against the m-button, it's not as a clean to use it with clip-ons. You wiring will leave the bars thru the end then want to turn around the steering neck, and run under the tank to the backbone to connect to the m-button. There, all the wires will cross up and over the backbone to connect, then a single wire from the m-button to the m-unit. Problem is, the m-button is hanging out with all the wires connections.

Or, you put the m-button in the headlight bucket, and the wiring exits handle bars and turns into the bucket, then a single wire back out. (This is a ton less clean). I'm telling you, for simplicity, for clean looks, and ease of connections, ditch the button. Save that money and spend it on something that actually makes your bike run better, faster or jump higher.

There is also a potential electrical interference with the m-button if you are not using resistor spark plug wires. The 650 is a CDI if I'm correct, so this is something to plan for.

The m-switch I linked at the top has another button on the "front" of that housing for the 3rd function. I use it as a my START, then the right lower is my Turn R, right top is my menu (for a MotoG gauge). Left side is front Horn, top is HI/Lo and lower is Turn L. So you can either get a 3 button and a 2, or have the spare function on yours in case you ever swap to an electronic gauge.

You send me a detailed list of which components, and I'll send you a colored diagram back, and I'll do it in stock colors so the next owner of your bike can decipher the wiring from the stock diagram.

Yeah, I don't feel like spending close to $300 on switches. They're beautiful, though. But sh*t, the more I think about it the easier I bet it'll be. Plus, I can't find a good alternative. Unless I go with the typical big block plastic switches. Ugh...I'll return to this later.

OK OK, no m-button! Haha, I see what you're saying with interference and cleanliness. That's out!

I couldn't find the wire on McMaster that you were talking about. I just see white, black and red for automotive. Wire Barn has a bundle of GXL wire in 10 colors, 25 ft of each wire. Something like $30. But I do want to get 18 and 22awg like you mentioned for ease of routing. Is the McMaster wire good quality or the same as what you'd buy in a basic auto parts store? Want to link me to it?

Awesome, I'll write up the components for the diagram. Thanks brother!

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

Nice. My engine is fully diassembled. The head and cylinders are about to go to blasting and the the machinist.

Trying to find a new output shift seal.

Are these hard to find? I haven't even looked for seals yet. Looks like we're pretty much at the same stages.

Plenty of places carry those:

http://www.cb750supply.com/products/4/engine

25x62x7 is the size I believe.

No. It is a different size than any other CB model. Waiting to hear back from Western Hills Honda.

91205-426-013   OIL SEAL (36X57X13)      

[DaveBarbier]

Here's the 22awg I use:
http://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-electrical-wire/=ygfnim
And the 18awg
http://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-electrical-wire/=ygfogh

Thanks, the link doesn't actually bring me to a specific wire, just the overall wire page. But no worries, WireBarn.com seems to have a good deal on good quality wire. I'll get 18GXL and 22TXL and I should be good to go. But for some circuits would it be better to use a thicker gauge or is 18 sufficient?

[DaveBarbier]

for the battery POS to solenoid, nothing smaller than 10awg, preferrably 6awg. I use 10AWG for new GROUND cable to frame. OR, you can pry open the factory lug connector on the stock cables, cut the cable shorter (if needed) then tin and close the lug back on it. This gets you into cleaner cable with no corrosion at the ends. Solenoid to STARTER is the same too.

Ok, cool. I have a bunch of good 6awg black and red wire.

[DaveBarbier]

Just moved the sensing wire up by the key switch. Voltage dropped from 14.8 but only to about 14.74. Not as big of a drop as I was hoping but a bit better...hoping that along with the fixing of the short by the key will remedy my headlight blowing issue. Going for a ride now.