Topic: Caliper grease

[Stoli]

I know that my shop manual recommends a silicone based grease and I've read the threads about caliper grease. They are kind of like the threads on what engine oil to use, so I hesitate asking this question but...

Does anyone have a good reasons why a Teflon (PTFE) based synthetic grease like Super Lube is a bad idea to use on the caliper piston?

Has anyone tried it and regretted it?

[Kickstart]

I've done a lot of research on this board, on this topic.

I think I've read almost every post on this topic... I don't thing there's as much debate on this as engine oil.
The general concensious is:

• Raybestos brake assembly lube for the piston/o-ring on assembly, and
• Dow high vacuum silicone grease for the part of the piston that is still sticking out past the o-ring, and on the metal parts (back and sides) of the brake pad (the metal backing plate)

http://www.amazon.com/Raybestos-BAF12-Brake-Asembly-Fluid/dp/B001ANJ2GE
http://www.amazon.com/Dow-Corning-Vacuum-Grease-1597418/dp/B001UHMNW0/ref=sr_1_cc_1?s=aps&ie=UTF8&qid=1362619653&sr=1-1-catcorr&keywords=dow+corning%C2%AE+high-vacuum+silicone+grease

[madmtnmotors]

I've done a lot of research on this board, on this topic.

I think I've read almost every post on this topic... I don't thing there's as much debate on this as engine oil.
The general concensious is:

• Raybestos brake assembly lube for the piston/o-ring on assembly, and
• Dow high vacuum silicone grease for the part of the piston that is still sticking out past the o-ring, and on the metal parts (back and sides) of the brake pad (the metal backing plate)

http://www.amazon.com/Raybestos-BAF12-Brake-Asembly-Fluid/dp/B001ANJ2GE
http://www.amazon.com/Dow-Corning-Vacuum-Grease-1597418/dp/B001UHMNW0/ref=sr_1_cc_1?s=aps&ie=UTF8&qid=1362619653&sr=1-1-catcorr&keywords=dow+corning%C2%AE+high-vacuum+silicone+grease

+1

[Kickstart]

Oh, I forgot to answer your question...

Does anyone have a good reasons why a Teflon (PTFE) based synthetic grease like Super Lube is a bad idea to use on the caliper piston?

Has anyone tried it and regretted it?

The reason I've read is most of these other greases will start to run at brake operating temperatures, and the grease will migrate to places you don't want it to be (like on the disc and/or brake pad).

However, I'm not familiar with Super Lube.

I actually have used the standard brake grease you can find at your typical auto shops, and I didn't notice any issues.  Maybe I just got lucky, or maybe it's really not that big of an issue... but I figure it's not worth taking a chance on so now I just use the correct stuff.

[Stoli]

Thanks for that info Kickstart. But, $29 for a 5oz tube of grease? Dow must have designed it for NASA to use on the Space Shuttle calipers. Of course, now that the Space Shuttle has been decomissioned, they are selling it on Amazon and eBay.

I think I might try the Super Lube since I have some in my shop. The specs look good (remains a gel up to 450 degrees). "Disk brake quiet" & calipers are listed as applications and it has been classified by the USDA as an H1 Food Grade lubricant, so if I have some left over I can put it on my corn flakes. As long as it plays nice with the brake fluid, looks like it should work fine.

http://l-36.com/superlube.php

[flybox1]

your brakes.  use what you want.

read this...
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=104349.0

here is one of TwoTireds responses on this subject. 
its good info i bookmarked...

There are multiple threads about this same topic:

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=56544.msg610718#msg610718
  Lets' review.
There are four products needed to restore a caliper.
1. Brake cleaner
2. Brake parts assembly lube for the caliper seal only.
3. Dow corning High vacuum grease.
4. Brake fluid

Each has it own specific application and needs for the task to be performed.

#1 is used to get everything clean.  (given the confusion, it had to be said)
#2 is used ONLY on the seal and must be compatible with #4, as some of it will invade the brake fluid chamber.
#3 is NOT used on the seal, as that would put silicone inside the brake fluid chamber.  This is a bad thing as the compounds are incompatible.  It is used behind the brake pads and a thin coat is used on the parts of the calipers and piston that are exposed to the elements and subject to water ingression.  The Dow Grease will not mix with ANYTHING.  It is a simple barrier with the very important property that it will NOT melt when the parts get hot and then run/creep into the brake pad friction material and provide lubrication between pad and disk rotor.
#4 is what makes the hydraulic part of the brake function. (I hope that part is clear.)

Cheers,

AMAZON has the DC high vacuum grease in 1oz flip lids.
http://www.amazon.com/Corning-Vacuum-Grease-Lubricant-Container/dp/B00B3O2YW4/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1362672437&sr=8-6&keywords=dow+corning+high+vacuum+grease

[tortelvis]

Caliper grease, LOL. We had a guy bring in an ATV for a service and he had put a grease gun on the BLEED nipples! Grease everywhere. Luckily he was too dumb to open the nipples first so had just coated the brakes with grease.

[Stoli]

tortelvis - The guy with the ATV must have read the thread on how to free a stick piston and was just trying to give you a headstart. 

flybox - I had read through that stuff before I posted. Excellent info, no doubt. But, the experts mention that the purpose of the grease is to act as a barrier to keep moisture and dirt out at extremely high temps. Makes perfect sense. Petroleum based lube will tend to weep at the high temps, so... bad choice. The Dow stuff won't, so... good choice. But that doesn't necessarily mean it is the only good choice. This Super Lube  would indicate that it does the same thing at a fraction of the cost. Thought it was worth a look. I'll go throw some in the oven...

[liPPy]

You can buy small 1oz containers of the Dow High Vacuum Grease on eBay that are perfect for a couple of calipers:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/DOW-CORNING-Laboratory-High-Vacuum-Grease-976V-Stopcock-/280617417916?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item415619fcbc

[flybox1]

tortelvis - The guy with the ATV must have read the thread on how to free a stick piston and was just trying to give you a headstart. 

flybox - I had read through that stuff before I posted. Excellent info, no doubt. But, the experts mention that the purpose of the grease is to act as a barrier to keep moisture and dirt out at extremely high temps. Makes perfect sense. Petroleum based lube will tend to weep at the high temps, so... bad choice. The Dow stuff won't, so... good choice. But that doesn't necessarily mean it is the only good choice. This Super Lube  would indicate that it does the same thing at a fraction of the cost. Thought it was worth a look. I'll go throw some in the oven...

definitely good to test.
GUNK brand pure silicon grease has been tested, too. 
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=114706.0

[MoTo-BunnY]

You will straight up DIE if you put SuperLube in as a replacement for the proper Dow grease. As good as SuperLube is for various applications (I love using it as a dielectric grease in electrical connections) I have also seen it run once it warms up from just the sun. What do you think will happen once your brakes warm up???  yikes......well lubed brake pads=no stop

Why people keep trying to find substitutes for what works, tested by experienced bike technicians, is readily available, and not all that expensive (hint: look for "expired" tubes on feeBay cheap) is beyond me. No, you can't find the Dow grease in the big-box stores but that is what the internet is for!

Look up references to Two-Tired's exhaustive oven tests on various brake greases and see if you really want to experiment with substandard grease on your FRICKIN' BRAKES?!


(don't mean to be surly folks but geez louise, this topic has been covered again and again, with the same conclusion again and again. It's not opinion driven that in this high temperature, challenging environment that pretty much only the Dow grease will work-it is NOT the same as regular oil threads)

[Stoli]

For what it's worth, I just watched a glob of the Super Lube (Gel) cling on to a piece of foil hung vertically in a 500 degree oven for 20 minutes. Didn't weep a bit. How hot do the brake calipers on a CB get? It doesn't look like there is an expiration date on it either.

[MoTo-BunnY]

I have a tube of the SuperLube gel in my hand right now. I just put a small blob on a quarter and heated it a bit with a lighter and watched it get runny just like I had witnessed it do in the sun before (I use this stuff all the time), so I'm not sure of your oven test? (was it on?  LoL)

The expiration date on the Dow grease is because it is used in laboratory applications and they are probably covering their tail (and generating more sales) by putting on an expiration date. I have a tube of it I bought already expired like 7 years ago and it has the exact same consistency as a fresh tube I bought last year. The Dow grease is much thicker and consistent and never separates, unlike the SuperLube stuff which seems to have a watery underlying component that will run.

Also of note, the Dow grease is SO HARD to get off of stuff once you apply it, very difficult to get it all off even with cleaners and what not. The SuperLube is much easier to clean up and is not nearly as persistent. (don't know what that says, just speaking from experience)

I like SuperLube for dielectric grease, hinges, guns, you name it but I'm not sure why you want to use the SuperLube so bad for your brakes other than it's pretty cheap? I HIGHLY recommend you don't but if you must I wish you luck as I think you will very much need it.......

[Mainerider]

NAPA Sil-Glyde. About $9 and designed for brake pads, calipers, etc...


SPECIAL PROPERTIES: High Film Strength. Stays Put. Water Repellent. Won't Run or Melt. Effective from -20° to +600°. Prevents Freezing. Harmless to Rubber.
APPLICATIONS: Brake pads, calipers, rubber boots, fan belts, V-Belts, weather stripping, trunk seals and bumpers, speedometer cables, window channels, hood stops and pads, and rubber gaskets.
This is a NAPA private branding of American Grease Stick Company (AGS) Sil-Glyde SG-8.
NAPA part number: 765-1346
Size: 8 ounce tube

[Harsh]

I am going to agree with MoTo-BunnY.  Why mess around with other stuff.  Look in the links provided and you will find the best stuff to use.  Silicone with brake fluid is a NO-NO.  Right on the front of that Napa stuff it states that it contains silicone, hence its name.  The small 1oz tubs of the Dow HVG is more than plenty to many many brake jobs.  If you are worried about the cost they also sell 1/4oz and 1/2oz tubs.  Both of which would do a number of brake jobs.  I also purchased the Westwood brake assembly lube from Jegg's ebay store.  It is the same price as their regular website, but they offer free shipping on ebay.  The 4 oz bottle will probably last me a lifetime.  My .02

[Kickstart]

Well, I guess I stand corrected... there is some debate on this.

My favorite statement so far: "You will straight up DIE" from MoTo-BunnY

While I think it's a good idea to stick with the DOW stuff, I don't think it's a bad idea to figure out what else works, for those who are on a budget or can't wait to order it. 
That said, I figure the tube I bought will last me 10 years... so it's really just about planning ahead properly.  Still, I can see it being helpful to someone who's replacing pads on a trip, or helping a friend at their place (etc.)... it would be good to know what's an acceptable alternative.

The NAPA Sil-Glyde looks promising.  Has anyone tested it?

Harsh, the Dow Vacuum grease is silicone.  You're not suppose to put it on the parts that come into contact with brake fluid (or at least not on the part of the part that contacts brake fluid.)

[Harsh]

Well, I guess I stand corrected... there is some debate on this.

My favorite statement so far: "You will straight up DIE" from MoTo-BunnY

While I think it's a good idea to stick with the DOW stuff, I don't think it's a bad idea to figure out what else works, for those who are on a budget or can't wait to order it. 
That said, I figure the tube I bought will last me 10 years... so it's really just about planning ahead properly.  Still, I can see it being helpful to someone who's replacing pads on a trip, or helping a friend at their place (etc.)... it would be good to know what's an acceptable alternative.

The NAPA Sil-Glyde looks promising.  Has anyone tested it?

Harsh, the Dow Vacuum grease is silicone.  You're not suppose to put it on the parts that come into contact with brake fluid (or at least not on the part of the part that contacts brake fluid.)

Since you have read all of the threads on this you definitely know there is some debate over it.  You and I are on pretty much on the same page.  Their have been tests done.  I want to say it was TwoTired who did some of the testing.  I am not saying that there may not be suitable substitutes out there, but I know the Dow has been tested and works.  Yes I know the Dow HVG is silicone, but you said it in your second post in this thread that other greases will start to run when heated and will migrate into unwanted places.  The Dow stuff will not do that.  For me it is easier to pack the little tub of Dow that a tube of something else.

[Mainerider]

Well, I guess I stand corrected... there is some debate on this.

My favorite statement so far: "You will straight up DIE" from MoTo-BunnY

While I think it's a good idea to stick with the DOW stuff, I don't think it's a bad idea to figure out what else works, for those who are on a budget or can't wait to order it. 
That said, I figure the tube I bought will last me 10 years... so it's really just about planning ahead properly.  Still, I can see it being helpful to someone who's replacing pads on a trip, or helping a friend at their place (etc.)... it would be good to know what's an acceptable alternative.

The NAPA Sil-Glyde looks promising.  Has anyone tested it?

Harsh, the Dow Vacuum grease is silicone.  You're not suppose to put it on the parts that come into contact with brake fluid (or at least not on the part of the part that contacts brake fluid.)

I've used the Sil-Glyde countless times and have never had any problems; Also, the shop I do carb work for uses it on a regular basis. At times, we humans really do make things more complicated than they need to be...

[Kickstart]

Well, I guess I stand corrected... there is some debate on this.

My favorite statement so far: "You will straight up DIE" from MoTo-BunnY

While I think it's a good idea to stick with the DOW stuff, I don't think it's a bad idea to figure out what else works, for those who are on a budget or can't wait to order it. 
That said, I figure the tube I bought will last me 10 years... so it's really just about planning ahead properly.  Still, I can see it being helpful to someone who's replacing pads on a trip, or helping a friend at their place (etc.)... it would be good to know what's an acceptable alternative.

The NAPA Sil-Glyde looks promising.  Has anyone tested it?

Harsh, the Dow Vacuum grease is silicone.  You're not suppose to put it on the parts that come into contact with brake fluid (or at least not on the part of the part that contacts brake fluid.)

Since you have read all of the threads on this you definitely know there is some debate over it.  You and I are on pretty much on the same page.  Their have been tests done.  I want to say it was TwoTired who did some of the testing.  I am not saying that there may not be suitable substitutes out there, but I know the Dow has been tested and works.  Yes I know the Dow HVG is silicone, but you said it in your second post in this thread that other greases will start to run when heated and will migrate into unwanted places.  The Dow stuff will not do that.  For me it is easier to pack the little tub of Dow that a tube of something else.

Agreed.

I also think everyone agrees we need to use something that doesn't run/creep at operating temperatures.  The general consensus is Dow HVG - the debatable part would be what else will work safely.  I also remember reading a thread on someone with an industrial (or scientific) oven who was testing different greases...  I believe they did find something else that doesn't run, but I don't recall what it was.

[City Boy]

Hi gang.At the risk of much flameage,this is my experience with brake chemicals that includes no NASA spec stuff.On all car and motorbike brake calipers,I use Permatex anti seize lubricant with copper, good to an advertized 1800F.All caliper slider pins receive this as well as any exposed piston area a la older calipers lacking dust seals.On CB750 specifically,the exposed portion of piston as well as the back and side of metal portion of pad A,surface area of pad seat,outer bore of caliper A, metal surface of pad B,and threads of caliper bolts all receive a thin application applied with an artist type paint brush.Same procedure applies to any caliper of similar construction.Any exposed boots or dust seals on other types receive a brushing of sil-glyde silicone grease as well to keep supple.Sil-glide is also excellent to keep any rubber parts supple.The only exception to the above is the piston seal itself that receives a dip in plain old brake fluid before installation.For all the above remember that "a little dab'l do ya".Clean and repeat process periodically as required.
  Now ; in 45 years of wrenching on vehicles,I have yet to see any evidence of liquifying,running,creep, galling,corrosion, or contamination of brake fluid whilst using the above in manner described.All this stuff is readily available at reasonable cost at any auto parts supplier.
                  Your results may vary              Rock On

[MoTo-BunnY]

Well, I guess I stand corrected... there is some debate on this.

My favorite statement so far: "You will straight up DIE" from MoTo-BunnY

lol. . . . .maybe a bit of hyperbole but I was just imagining that stuff run from the heat of braking and SuperLubing your brake pads which is only unfortunately discovered at the next hard panic stop.........scrrrrrrrrrrrrreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeech    *BAM*   

You guys experiment all you want, I just feel it is kind of like a reinventing the wheel situation with potentially dangerous ramifications. It also smacks of those threads where the posters are trying to find the absolutely cheapest tires to use on their bike. I'm all about saving some money here and there but I draw the line at cutting corners on brakes and tires-I will spend a bit more money and get what has been tested and proven to work.

Good Luck with your experimentation....... you can still stop with just the back brake, right?   

[Stoli]

This thread got better than expected.

After reading MB's second post, in preparation of my impending and certain death, I had added a footnote to my epitaph that read "Dumb ass used SuperLube on his calipers".  I'm rethinking it now, and on the '77F that I'm fixing up, I intend to use Dow HVG on the front left, NAPA Sil-Glyde on the front right and the Super Lube on the rear.   

But seriously...  thanks for all the feedback...  Good stuff.

[MoTo-BunnY]

Maybe try some KY for the brakes, too-along with a couple gulps of yer namesake Stoli (Столичная-one of my faves!) to steel the nerves before your (death)ride.

wooOOOOooo whooOOOooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  look ma', NO brakes!!!

[Stoli]

I switched to Tequila a few years back. I use the Stoli for brake fluid now. Kept the old call sign though.