Author Topic: Thoughts about points  (Read 42114 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline rotortiller

  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 868
Re: Thoughts about points
« Reply #175 on: September 29, 2017, 03:09:09 AM »
Did a bit more research and found a better version as a replacement to my failed Hondaman ignition box. This system features a dwell for charging the ignition coils similar to the original design for duration when the points are closed to build up the charge  in the coil. Coil duty cycle is thus more reasonable for power consumption and ignition coil stress. It cost a little more but it is better thought out so I am going with this version. It uses  two signals, one to power a coil and one to discharge it so I think it is a better mouse trap. :). The Asians are so adaptable to the market through design change.




rt
« Last Edit: May 15, 2019, 10:10:06 AM by rotortiller »

Offline Lostboy Steve

  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,088
Re: Thoughts about points
« Reply #176 on: September 29, 2017, 08:25:37 AM »
Why not just use the hondaman and point with a good set of coils and wires. Best of both worlds. Works great on my 550. Probably the most reliable part of it right now.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
1968 Honda Z50
1977 Honda CB550K
2018 Indian Scout

Offline Lostboy Steve

  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,088
Re: Thoughts about points
« Reply #177 on: September 29, 2017, 08:27:37 AM »
Did a bit more research and found a better version as a replacement to my failed Hondaman ignition box. This system features a dwell for charging the ignition coils similar to the original design for duration when the points are closed to build up the charge  in the coil. Coil duty cycle is thus more reasonable for power consumption and ignition coil stress. It cost a little more but it is better thought out so I am going with this version. It uses a two signals, one to power a coil and one to discharge it so I think it is a better mouse trap. :). The Asians are so adaptable to the market through design change.




rt
How long did it take to fail? Is it possible to just be a defect? Mine has been rock solid for a while.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
1968 Honda Z50
1977 Honda CB550K
2018 Indian Scout

Offline rotortiller

  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 868
Re: Thoughts about points
« Reply #178 on: September 29, 2017, 08:57:55 AM »
Quote
Why not just use the hondaman and point with a good set of coils and wires.

Quote
How long did it take to fail? Is it possible to just be a defect? Mine has been rock solid for a while.

The grommet is not sealed and I had mine mounted horizontal under the seat at the top of the battery tray underside, hidden out of the way for a stock appearance. Water and debris  from washing followed the wiring into the box and pooched it (the bike lives in a heated garage when not ridden). The failed box should either be sealed or potted in resin (like say Lakeland does with the Kawasaki stuff http://www.lakeserv.net/kaw/h2_all_in_one/index.html) or mounted in a vertical position with the grommet facing down. Had I known it was not sealed at the grommet  I would have sealed it myself. I don't reward poor construction with a second chance and I found something more interesting.  It's under 5 years old but not worth the aggravation and shipping costs when I can have something more interesting. Hondaman does not like dealing with Canadian orders from reading his past posts  so we are both better off.  ;D

rt

Offline PeWe

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 15,762
  • Bike almost back to the 70's 2015
Re: Thoughts about points
« Reply #179 on: September 29, 2017, 10:47:32 AM »
Under the battery holder cannot be a good place for anything. My module is placed dry and cosy. I wrapped it with rubber  to avoid vibrations, then a little bit more to ensure no contact with the battery if coming loose.

A Dyna 2000 module must be placed dry too, right? Seal it completely can cause condense and oxidation of the electronics, solderings and PCB?
CB750 K6-76  970cc (Earlier 1005cc JMR Billet block on the shelf waiting for a comeback)
CB750 K2-75 Parts assembled to a stock K2

Updates of the CB750 K6 -1976
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180468.msg2092136.html#msg2092136
The billet block build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,49438.msg1863571.html#msg1863571
CB750 K2 -1975  build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,168243.msg1948381.html#msg1948381
K2 engine build thread. For a complete CB750 -75
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180088.msg2088008.html#msg2088008
Carb jetting, a long story Mikuni TMR32
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,179479.msg2104967.html#msg2104967

Offline rotortiller

  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 868
Re: Thoughts about points
« Reply #180 on: September 29, 2017, 03:00:18 PM »
Mine was 3 inches behind yours same altitude at the battery rear rubber strap tang on the tray. Actually velcro went through the punched tang opening to hold the unit underneath. This was so the battery acid residue would not be the units closest sister. :)
« Last Edit: September 29, 2017, 03:03:38 PM by rotortiller »

Offline HondaMan

  • Someone took this pic of me before I became a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 14,050
  • ...not my choice, I was nicknamed...
    • Getting 'em Back on the Road
Re: Thoughts about points
« Reply #181 on: September 29, 2017, 07:56:38 PM »
Quote
Why not just use the hondaman and point with a good set of coils and wires.

Quote
How long did it take to fail? Is it possible to just be a defect? Mine has been rock solid for a while.

The grommet is not sealed and I had mine mounted horizontal under the seat at the top of the battery tray underside, hidden out of the way for a stock appearance. Water and debris  from washing followed the wiring into the box and pooched it (the bike lives in a heated garage when not ridden). The failed box should either be sealed or potted in resin (like say Lakeland does with the Kawasaki stuff http://www.lakeserv.net/kaw/h2_all_in_one/index.html) or mounted in a vertical position with the grommet facing down. Had I known it was not sealed at the grommet  I would have sealed it myself. I don't reward poor construction with a second chance and I found something more interesting.  It's under 5 years old but not worth the aggravation and shipping costs when I can have something more interesting. Hondaman does not like dealing with Canadian orders from reading his past posts  so we are both better off.  ;D

rt
Easy there, Rotortiller: I have found another way to get back-and-forth to Canada, and the Ignition has a Lifetime Warranty on it.
;)
Yours is not the first one to be filled with water from incorrect mounting, but if it died from being full of water, it would be the first one that did. The others that got that way worked fine after they were dried back out (3 so far that I know about). One was even filled up 4 times between the Eastern US and Boulder, CO, and worked fine the next day each time, after it dried back out.

The grommet is not sealed for a very good (and patented) reason: when moisture does find its way into this box, the heating effects of the operation boil the moisture back out, through the vent. In the world of electronics, this is known as the "moisture pumping vent" design, and is very common in electronic enclosures that must be kept outside in all sorts of weather. Also in the world of high-heat-cycling electronics like this one, encapsulation is forbidden as no one has ever created an epoxy that will not pull the parts out of the PC board from heat-flexing. When the encapsulant expands slower than the transistors, it pushes downward on their leads: when the transistor cools faster than the encapsulant, it then pulls the leads out of the PC board. This is why you seldom find encapsulation over the high-power components of any analog circuitry, anywhere. With some digital circuits (MOSFETs, in particular) that simply don't heat up, they do get encapsulated successfully: they also have much shorter lives than these types of devices (e.g., modern automotive electronics). I have some of these boxes in constant operation since 1973. ;)

If you can get it back to me, I'll test/repair it and return it to you at no charge, as stated in the original Warranty.
:)
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book

Link to website: www.SOHC4shop.com

Offline jgger

  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,373
Re: Thoughts about points
« Reply #182 on: September 29, 2017, 11:24:40 PM »
Can't beat that, can ya?
"The SOHC4 uses a computer located about 2-3 ft above the seat.  Those sometimes need additional programming." -stolen from  Two Tired

The difference between an ass kisser and brown noser is merely depth perception.  Stolen from RAFster122s

Offline seanbarney41

  • not really that much younger than an
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 10,901
Re: Thoughts about points
« Reply #183 on: September 29, 2017, 11:51:08 PM »
dang, the 'tiller tried to hate, and got only more love
If it works good, it looks good...

Offline rotortiller

  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 868
Re: Thoughts about points
« Reply #184 on: September 30, 2017, 09:40:45 AM »
I appreciate the kind and generous repair offer sir but the shipping back and forth is not worth my effort plus shipping would equal the product cost.  The Tytronics is 10 bucks for shipping from Asia and already on its way. The money thing is dick all with that being said. Had I known the box was a water bucket I wouid have sealed and potted the guts, maybe drilled a bottom drain hole to mount it in the same hidden spot, however hindsight is 20:20. You obviously know its a water trap from your post so why not warn the customers to mount in one direction or fix the design flaw. If the box were potted then there would be no moisture in the circuit. Sounds like a classic case of pumping wet but warm vented and patented smoke rather than dealing with a problem.  ;D  It is indeed nice to know I can make some boiling hot tea when the kettle is operating.  I took the time to make a careful wiring installation and similar time to carefully remove said wiring that bothers me. Thanks again for the offer Hondaman, it is very kind of you but I'm going to give this other product a try. I know some do not like so see your product taken to task but it is what it is.

respectfully

RT


Offline Killer Canary

  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,805
  • Typical Bran Muffin
Re: Thoughts about points
« Reply #185 on: September 30, 2017, 11:18:04 AM »
"Pooched" in what way? Are there pieces blown out of any internal components or corroded foil traces?
My understanding from Hondaman's post is that while the unit won't work while there's water in it, it will work once it's dried out with no lasting ill effects.
I have to ask, did you try the unit after the moisture had dried up? ???
If it's worth doing at all it's worth over-doing.
Honda MT250, CB400F, CB450K, CB550, GL500, CBR929
Kawi GPz900, H1

Offline PeWe

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 15,762
  • Bike almost back to the 70's 2015
Re: Thoughts about points
« Reply #186 on: September 30, 2017, 12:55:11 PM »
Open it and let dry and give it another try so you'll know.
Possible for another bike or as spare if (when) the new electronic ignition should stop working.

I have not had any thoughts about acid since my battery is sealed gel type. It can leak some anyway. I'll place something between just for sure. Piece of cardboard that can absorb moist, acid and vibration.
CB750 K6-76  970cc (Earlier 1005cc JMR Billet block on the shelf waiting for a comeback)
CB750 K2-75 Parts assembled to a stock K2

Updates of the CB750 K6 -1976
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180468.msg2092136.html#msg2092136
The billet block build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,49438.msg1863571.html#msg1863571
CB750 K2 -1975  build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,168243.msg1948381.html#msg1948381
K2 engine build thread. For a complete CB750 -75
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180088.msg2088008.html#msg2088008
Carb jetting, a long story Mikuni TMR32
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,179479.msg2104967.html#msg2104967

Offline Spanner 1

  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,092
  • CB 750 K0 ( always thought it was a K1!) + CB750K8
Re: Thoughts about points
« Reply #187 on: September 30, 2017, 07:21:50 PM »
Hmmm... stop washing your bikes , lads, with those high pressure hoses at the d.i.y. car washes. Said it before, but the water/detergent mix gets into the electrical connectors and wreaks havoc with the system over time, a short time . Corrosion city !. No bike was ever designed to be washed by high pressure water that gets behind side covers, under seats, into areas that water should never be and would never be even when riding for long periods in heavy rain  :o
« Last Edit: September 30, 2017, 07:26:28 PM by Spanner 1 »
If your sure it's a carb problem; it's ignition,
If your sure it's an ignition problem; it's carbs....

Offline 754

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 29,050
Re: Thoughts about points
« Reply #188 on: September 30, 2017, 07:26:01 PM »
 I havent washed mine in over a year.. I think I am safe.
Maker of the WELDLESS 750 Frame Kit
dodogas99@gmail.com
Kelowna B.C.       Canada

My next bike will be a ..ANFOB.....

It's All part of the ADVENTURE...

73 836cc.. Green, had it for 3 decades!!
Lost quite a few CB 750's along the way

Offline Spanner 1

  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,092
  • CB 750 K0 ( always thought it was a K1!) + CB750K8
Re: Thoughts about points
« Reply #189 on: September 30, 2017, 07:27:52 PM »
That's why it runs so good  Seven Fifty Four ! ;)
If your sure it's a carb problem; it's ignition,
If your sure it's an ignition problem; it's carbs....

Offline Lostboy Steve

  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,088
Re: Thoughts about points
« Reply #190 on: October 01, 2017, 05:38:28 AM »


Mine is mounted under the battery. Literally. I have a lithium Del Tran battery and I made a cutout in some foam, placed the ignition in it and then sat the battery on top of it. The battery is physically so much smaller That even with 2" of foam under it it's still shorter than the stock lead acid unit. It's been there for a while I thought heat could be a concern, but the only heat there is from the unit itself.

How did your ignition fill up with water, but not your pods? Seems like if your getting that much water you're playing Russian roulette with your engine.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
1968 Honda Z50
1977 Honda CB550K
2018 Indian Scout

Offline Bailgang

  • Scott
  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,699
  • Indiana
Re: Thoughts about points
« Reply #191 on: October 01, 2017, 06:50:13 AM »
I know some do not like so see your product taken to task but it is what it is.

respectfully

RT

And what exactly is it? The question has already been asked but I'll ask again, have you dried the unit out and to see if it works now? If not then your review of Hondaman's product isn't conclusive. I'm all for taking someones product to the task whether it be Hondaman's or not but claiming poor build quality because it's not sealed when there is a legitimate reason why it's not sealed (and why you shouldn't try to seal it yourself) shows nothing about build quality but more so you being over zealous with a water hose cleaning your bike.
Scott


71 cb350 twin
77 cb750 F2
83 gl1100 Interstate

Offline madmtnmotors

  • When did I get to be a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 6,111
  • Sunny Central Florida
Re: Thoughts about points
« Reply #192 on: October 01, 2017, 07:52:38 AM »
I know some do not like so see your product taken to task but it is what it is.

respectfully

RT

And what exactly is it?

I'll tell you what it is, the man stood behind his product and offered to repair or replace it under warranty. If that ain't good enough then I'm guessing you are one of those types that are never pleased...  :(

Your biggest gripe seems to be with Mark's aversion to the Canadian postal system. That is by no means a testament to his opinions about Canadians as a whole, just those that work for the Canadian post. You don't happen to be a postal worker do you?  ;)
TAMTF...


Wilbur



Projects:
"Evolution": http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=100352.0
"P.O. Debacle": http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,126692.msg1441661.html#msg1441661
F2/F3 O-rings: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=113672.msg1300721#msg1300721
Cam Tower Studs: https://www.mcmaster.com/#93210a017/=t19sgp
Clean up that nasty harness: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=137351.msg1549191#msg1549191
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,148188.msg1688494.html#msg1688494
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,139544.msg1579364.html#msg1579364
                                          
Charging system diagnosis: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=1012.msg8345#msg8345
Get the manuals: http://manuals.sohc4.net/cb750k/
The Dragon: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=45183.msg1571675#msg1571675
Headlight Switch: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=113986.msg1283236#msg1283236
Branden's leak free top end thread: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=107040.0
Engine Lifting Made Easy: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,58210.msg1684742.html#msg1684742
                                      http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,100352.msg1675840.html#msg1675840
Static and Dynamic Timing: http://www.hondachopper.com/garage/carb_info/timing/timing1.html
Airbox Gasket Replacement: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,114485.msg1290000.html#msg1290000
"Café" : http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,84697.msg953814.html#msg953814
PD Carb Choke Linkage: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,100352.msg1669248.html#msg1669248
                                    http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,110931.msg1248354.html#msg1248354
                                    http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,48858.msg515204.html#msg515204
Follow up on your damn posts: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,144305.msg1791605.html#msg1791605
Taiwanese Cam Chain Tensioners:  http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,155043.msg1774841.html#msg1774841
Gumtwo Seat Cover: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,164440.msg1897366.html#msg1897366
Primary Drive: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,166063.msg1919278.html#msg1919278
Tank Latch: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,165975.msg1919495.html#msg1919495
Shorten your forks: http://vintage-and-classic-honda-s.456789.n3.nabble.com/How-to-shorten-forks-td4042465.html DO NOT CUT THE SPRINGS!
Clutch How To: http://vintage-and-classic-honda-s.456789.n3.nabble.com/How-to-change-and-adjust-a-clutch-SOHC-td4040391.html
Late model K7/K8/F2/F3 front sprocket cover removal: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,178428.msg2072279.html#msg2072279
630 to 530 conversion: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180710.msg2094423.html#msg2094423

Sent from my Tandy TRS-80!

Offline PeWe

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 15,762
  • Bike almost back to the 70's 2015
Re: Thoughts about points
« Reply #193 on: October 01, 2017, 08:44:44 AM »
AHA! Maybe the black plastic rear fender under seat is not there allowing a lot of dirt splashing up by the tire when road is wet?

My bike had a hole in the plastic fender after touring with 2 persons + luggage that allowed the tire to make a hole in fender after some bumps in higher speed, no moisture on battery.

I have seen too many bikes without any fenders. The fenders does not only protect the driver, it protect the bike too.
And/or missing side cover...?
CB750 K6-76  970cc (Earlier 1005cc JMR Billet block on the shelf waiting for a comeback)
CB750 K2-75 Parts assembled to a stock K2

Updates of the CB750 K6 -1976
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180468.msg2092136.html#msg2092136
The billet block build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,49438.msg1863571.html#msg1863571
CB750 K2 -1975  build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,168243.msg1948381.html#msg1948381
K2 engine build thread. For a complete CB750 -75
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180088.msg2088008.html#msg2088008
Carb jetting, a long story Mikuni TMR32
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,179479.msg2104967.html#msg2104967

Offline Stev-o

  • Ain't no
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 34,458
  • Central Texas
Re: Thoughts about points
« Reply #194 on: October 01, 2017, 08:48:38 AM »
I appreciate the kind and generous repair offer sir but the shipping back and forth is not worth my effort plus shipping would equal the product cost



Where are you located? Would you consider selling it for shipping cost?
'74 "Big Bang" Honda 750K [836].....'76 Honda 550F.....K3 Park Racer!......and a Bomber!............plus plus plus.........

Offline 754

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 29,050
Re: Thoughts about points
« Reply #195 on: October 01, 2017, 09:48:19 AM »
Sell it to me  I am Canadian   ..
Maker of the WELDLESS 750 Frame Kit
dodogas99@gmail.com
Kelowna B.C.       Canada

My next bike will be a ..ANFOB.....

It's All part of the ADVENTURE...

73 836cc.. Green, had it for 3 decades!!
Lost quite a few CB 750's along the way

Offline PeWe

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 15,762
  • Bike almost back to the 70's 2015
Re: Thoughts about points
« Reply #196 on: October 01, 2017, 10:04:36 AM »
Sell it to me  I am Canadian   ..

... will fit your points really well too!
CB750 K6-76  970cc (Earlier 1005cc JMR Billet block on the shelf waiting for a comeback)
CB750 K2-75 Parts assembled to a stock K2

Updates of the CB750 K6 -1976
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180468.msg2092136.html#msg2092136
The billet block build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,49438.msg1863571.html#msg1863571
CB750 K2 -1975  build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,168243.msg1948381.html#msg1948381
K2 engine build thread. For a complete CB750 -75
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180088.msg2088008.html#msg2088008
Carb jetting, a long story Mikuni TMR32
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,179479.msg2104967.html#msg2104967

Offline 754

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 29,050
Re: Thoughts about points
« Reply #197 on: October 01, 2017, 10:51:38 AM »
 And I don't wash my my bike so I am safe!
Maker of the WELDLESS 750 Frame Kit
dodogas99@gmail.com
Kelowna B.C.       Canada

My next bike will be a ..ANFOB.....

It's All part of the ADVENTURE...

73 836cc.. Green, had it for 3 decades!!
Lost quite a few CB 750's along the way

Offline PeWe

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 15,762
  • Bike almost back to the 70's 2015
Re: Thoughts about points
« Reply #198 on: October 01, 2017, 11:20:34 AM »
like the old song...
I'm riding in the rain
Just cleaning the bike in the rain
What a glorious feeling
I'm happy again
and my bike with points runs so damn well.....
CB750 K6-76  970cc (Earlier 1005cc JMR Billet block on the shelf waiting for a comeback)
CB750 K2-75 Parts assembled to a stock K2

Updates of the CB750 K6 -1976
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180468.msg2092136.html#msg2092136
The billet block build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,49438.msg1863571.html#msg1863571
CB750 K2 -1975  build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,168243.msg1948381.html#msg1948381
K2 engine build thread. For a complete CB750 -75
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180088.msg2088008.html#msg2088008
Carb jetting, a long story Mikuni TMR32
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,179479.msg2104967.html#msg2104967

Offline Terry in Australia

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 33,390
  • So, what do ya wanna talk about today?
Re: Thoughts about points
« Reply #199 on: October 01, 2017, 01:31:59 PM »
like the old song...
I'm riding in the rain
Just cleaning the bike in the rain
What a glorious feeling
I'm happy again
and my bike with points runs so damn well
Just don't let my Hondaman ignition box get wet, or it'll all go to hell......


What a great song! ;D
« Last Edit: October 01, 2017, 04:38:38 PM by Terry in Australia »
I was feeling sorry for myself because I couldn't afford new bike boots, until I met a man with no legs.

So I said, "Hey mate, you haven't got any bike boots you don't need, do you?"

"Crazy is a very misunderstood term, it's a fine line that some of us can lean over and still keep our balance" (thanks RB550Four)