Topic: Helmet discussion

[andy750]

I wear a helmet every single day and on weekends usually like to go for long rides (300+ mile) days. So for me I like a helmet that is light, has one or two vents but not so many that its cold in winter (even with vents shut), or is noisy/prone to buffeting due to vents/shape of helmet, has a comfortable lining that wont leave a line on my forehead (has anyone found this holy grail of helmets?), lining is not itchy on forehead, fits well, has good visor vision (full face), has good visor fit/leak proof in rain, easy to change visor, has ability to be open a tiny crack to prevent fogging in slow moving traffic in rain/drizzle, and of course good crash protection (which most full-face helmets are going to offer). 

These are what I pay for in getting a good helmet. I find this in my Shoei TZR ($200, except the forehead line thing) but not in my Shoei X-11 ($500 - I didnt pay that for it though) - the X-11 is great in summer, lots of vents, airflow, but crap in winter as its too cold even with vents all closed. Forehead lining is also not comfortable over a long time.

I also have a $120 HJC (C-10) and its got good padding but cheap venting and cheap shield fitment. Decent enough helmet though. In the past had an AGV which was also durable and good enough at the time (student days). Going from the AGV to a Shoei RF900 was like night and day and stuck with Shoei ever since. The Shoei RF1000 however did not fit me too well (mouth section was really too close) and so went for the TZR which is much better fit. 

Andy

[Oddjob]

Maybe it's just me but I don't tend to pick a helmet on it's looks, although I do take them into consideration. I tend to pick a decent name but the most important thing for me is weight. I broke my neck some years ago in a very severe car crash, not a major break just a minor one if you can have a minor break that is. As a result my neck aches almost constantly, sometimes more than others. I remember riding in the 70s and 80s with fibreglass helmets which were by todays standards incredibly heavy, my old Stadium Phoneix helmet was a nice helmet but damn was it heavy.
So when I was looking for a new helmet 2 years ago after finally getting back into the biking scene I tried quite a few on. I chose the lightest helmet I could, with a good name and the features I thought might help, like anti mist visors, airvents (still remember sweating like a pig in the Stadium) and finally did it look ok. Price was NOT a factor, I was a bit flush so the price was irrelevant
I ended up with a pair of Shoei X-Spirits or X-11 as it's also known, very light yet extremely strong and had everything I wanted. Got a matching pair at a good price.
I've found it an excellent helmet, visor never mists up, airvents work well in summer (you can really feel the air moving around inside the helmet) I don't find it cold in the winter at all, maybe UK winters aren't as cold.
I'm so impressed with the helmet I have just bought an X-12 or X-Spirit 2, only because it was dirt cheap in a bankrupt stock sale and it was painted in my favourite riders colour scheme (Kiyonari)
I can ride for a few hours before I need to remove the helmet to rest my neck, with a heavier helmet I could probably only go on short rides before the pain would get so severe I'd need to go home. The only way I could see to keep the weight down was to go for a helmet which incorporated the latest technology, which of course comes at a price.

[Skunk Stripe]

Actually, almost all full face helmets now weigh about 3.5 pounds and are pretty well balanced. I certainly get what you are saying. It has the sum of all its parts. Low weight is nothing if your head gets buffeted all over the place from poor aerodynamics.

[andy750]

Ill just add that helmet buffeting will depend on many variables - riding position, rider height, how your bike is set up etc etc...as an example I tried the Shoei X-11 on the CB750K4 (stock K1 bars, upright/slightly leaning posture) - buffeting at speeds over 70 mph. No buffeting with Shoei TZR. In contrast, riding the DL1000 Vstrom with large windshield with X-11 = no buffeting, and more buffeting with the TZR.

So its actually good in my experience to have a couple of helmets to chose from if you have a couple of different bikes.

And yes Boston winters are much colder than UK winters on average - riding in 20F temps versus 35 -40F temps makes a difference, though UK winters are wetter so the damp cold can be just as bad. Glad you had a good experience with the X-11 though - my visor does mist up in damp weather. When I chose a helmet to go pick up the VStrom in Green Bay, WI and ride back to Boston, MA (1250 miles) in 32F - 40F I chose the TZR due to it being a warmer helmet than the X-11.

Anyway good discussion so keep it coming. Anyone found a helmet yet that dosent leave forehard marks or has an extra comfortable liner?

Andy

[flybox1]

Anyone found a helmet yet that dosent leave forehard marks or has an extra comfortable liner?

My lid is the Anthracite HJC FS-15.  Fits my head shape really well, 3.5 lbs, really comfortable, good vents, but it does leave forehead marks. 
Even with perfectly padded helmets, wouldnt you expect it to leave SOME fivehead marks?
I mean, if it didnt, i wouldnt think it was fitted properly

[madmtnmotors]

Anyone found a helmet yet that dosent leave forehard marks or has an extra comfortable liner?

Andy

Andy,
     Arai is the only manufacturer that uses different head SHAPES instead of just different sizes of the SAME shape. Arai has a short oval (for a little extra forehead room) and a LONG oval (for a LOT more forehead room). I could never find a helmet that did not pinch me across the forehead to the point that I would have a headache after about two hours until I found the long oval shape that Arai uses. Riding had lost it's appeal to me and I was about ready to give it up since I would not consider riding without a helmet. With the long oval shape having relieved the pressure against my forehead, I am now able to spend 12 hours in the saddle (which I did on the kick-off leg of our "Round The World Relay" from Daytona) and enjoy every minute of it!

[Oddjob]

Actually, almost all full face helmets now weigh about 3.5 pounds and are pretty well balanced. I certainly get what you are saying. It has the sum of all its parts. Low weight is nothing if your head gets buffeted all over the place from poor aerodynamics.

There is a small sticker on the side of my X-Spirit saying it weighs 1400G, IIRC a kilo is 2.2lbs so the helmet is approx 3lbs or 3.1lbs. Now that may not seem a lot to others but believe me when I say it means a LOT to my neck, I do find buffeting a slight problem as I'm currently riding a retro naked model an 09 CB1300, however I find lowering the chin down slightly raises the profile of the rear spoiler and stops it almost completely. Only happens at speeds in excess of 95mph though, steady as a rock until then. I found at 145mph I was more concerned with chest pressure than helmet buffeting, fitting a small flyscreen helped considerably.

[Skunk Stripe]

Actually, a lot of helmets use different shapes.
http://www.webbikeworld.com/motorcycle-helmets/motorcycle-helmet-shapes.htm

[FunJimmy]

I read and followed that “Blowing the lid off” story in Motorcyclist magazine and read a bit about the Hurt Report and commend them for publishing such findings in spite of the helmet manufacturers and advertisers. As a result of publications like these. I avoid SNELL Approved helmets in favor of the European safety ratings and DOT whenever possible.

I’m currently wearing a Shark helmet for the European ratings and feel better protected for it.

[madmtnmotors]

Actually, a lot of helmets use different shapes.
http://www.webbikeworld.com/motorcycle-helmets/motorcycle-helmet-shapes.htm

Direct quotes:
"Don't forget that all the information we provide is our opinion"

"Remember that in the absence of scientific proof, discussions about motorcycle helmets are simply opinion, and ours is just that.  Your experience may be completely different than ours regarding motorcycle helmet fit"

and:

"As far as we know, Arai is the only manufacturer to capitalize on internal helmet shapes as a selling point."


From: http://www.webbikeworld.com/motorcycle-helmets/motorcycle-helmet-faq.htm

[Gordon]

Actually, a lot of helmets use different shapes.
http://www.webbikeworld.com/motorcycle-helmets/motorcycle-helmet-shapes.htm

Direct quotes:
"Don't forget that all the information we provide is our opinion"

"Remember that in the absence of scientific proof, discussions about motorcycle helmets are simply opinion, and ours is just that.  Your experience may be completely different than ours regarding motorcycle helmet fit"

These are just standard disclaimers so the helmet manufacturers, and customers, can't accuse the writer/publisher of attempting to speak for them.

and:

"As far as we know, Arai is the only manufacturer to capitalize on internal helmet shapes as a selling point."

This just means they're the only ones to advertise the fact that they have different shapes.  Doesn't mean they're the only ones to use them. 

[Rookster]

just be aware alot of the materials that actually help displace the impact of a crash break down over time.

Yup. The eps loses its effectiveness over a few years. The shell, unless damaged by impact or exposure, is usually not much of an issue.

Actually the EPS is little effected by time.  By itself it will not lose its ability to crush over time.  It does not absorb moisture in any appreciable levels over time.  It is not effected by oils from your hair/skin.  Do a search on EPS and see for yourself.  It is used in the construction industry for its longevity and resiliency.  Fiberglass shells can become brittle over time.  Polycarbonate shells are not as effected by time but can be effected by exposure to the sun (same for fiberglass shells).  What does not age well is the comfort liner that actually offers no protective value during an impact.  Old helmets are not as safe as new helmets simply becuase they are smaller (less EPS) not becuase the materials have broken down.  A NOS vintage Bell/Buco/Shoei/Arai/etc still has the same protective qualities it had when new. 

Final thought: How can a helmet manufacturer claim their product, when used properly, will not protect you in the event of an impact but at the same time claim the product is essentially used up after 5 years without an impact?  The 5 year limit is a marketing tool.

Scott

[Gordon]

just be aware alot of the materials that actually help displace the impact of a crash break down over time.

Yup. The eps loses its effectiveness over a few years. The shell, unless damaged by impact or exposure, is usually not much of an issue.

Actually the EPS is little effected by time.  By itself it will not lose its ability to crush over time.  It does not absorb moisture in any appreciable levels over time.  It is not effected by oils from your hair/skin.  Do a search on EPS and see for yourself.  It is used in the construction industry for its longevity and resiliency.  Fiberglass shells can become brittle over time.  Polycarbonate shells are not as effected by time but can be effected by exposure to the sun (same for fiberglass shells).  What does not age well is the comfort liner that actually offers no protective value during an impact.  Old helmets are not as safe as new helmets simply becuase they are smaller (less EPS) not becuase the materials have broken down.  A NOS vintage Bell/Buco/Shoei/Arai/etc still has the same protective qualities it had when new. 

Final thought: How can a helmet manufacturer claim their product, when used properly, will not protect you in the event of an impact but at the same time claim the product is essentially used up after 5 years without an impact?  The 5 year limit is a marketing tool.

Scott

Even if you remove the EPS from the equation, the outer shell of the helmet, which as you stated does degrade either over time or from sun exposure, is part of the impact absorption provided by the helmet.  The shell cracks and splits, absorbing some of the impact.  If it has become brittle from exposure or age it will more easily shatter and not take up as much of the impact. 

As far as buying into the manufacturer recommendation of 5 years, I really don't know because I've never put much thought into it.  I generally tend to get a new helmet within that time-frame anyway, but only because the old helmet is pretty well used up.  I've never spent more than $130 for a helmet, so once you figure in the cost of replacing the visor and the liner, it makes more sense to just get a new helmet. 

[Skunk Stripe]

Thats why I put in "The shell, unless damaged by impact or exposure, is usually not much of an issue.".

[singedebile]

Check this article that was published in Motorcyclist magazine:

http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/gearbox/motorcycle_helmet_review/index.html

thankyou for posting this article, its exactly the basic explanation i needed

[OneWheelDrive]

I just bought a Bell Custom 500 for ripping around town, and it's pretty nice for my 3 mile commute to work, but I would never feel comfortable over 35 MPH without my full face.  I was going about 55 through a windy country road and rode through a swarm of bees!  I killed about 5 on my shield alone.  If I had been squided out in a teeshirt and open face, I would have been stung and gone down for sure!  For the record, I have a Valentino Rossi AGV K-3.  It's lite, well made, low wind noise, and reasonably priced.

[detdrbuzzard]

when i gut back into riding in'07 i didn't have any gear but knowing that i wanted a bike i purchased an hjc cl 12 ff helmet. it was a close out  special for about $60 and only dot rated but its comfortable and fits the shape of my head very good. ieventually got an hjc cl15 but the cs12 fits better. been thinking about getting a bell ff helmet for next year