Author Topic: 1977 CB750 K7 Resto-mod, Knoxville (Read 97364 times)

Restoration Fan · « **Reply #300 on:** June 08, 2015, 05:43:03 PM »

Great news, Nate! Looking forward to hearing her sing.

AintNoEasyWay · « **Reply #301 on:** June 09, 2015, 10:53:00 AM »

Cut new holes for the inner four rubber inserts/dowels. I used a 3/4″ punch to cut out the gasket, then sanded them down with a sanding drum on the Dremel (Thanks for the suggestion, Ron!). Time to torque & move on to reassembly of the cylinder head.

AintNoEasyWay · « **Reply #302 on:** June 09, 2015, 02:52:01 PM »

Well, guess I got too excited about getting to assemble the head & unfortunately am going to have to take a step back. I just broke off one of the bolts that goes near spark plug #1 in the head. It broke off down in the cylinder block.

I am using heavy duty APE studs, so I followed the torque sequence in Hondaman's book & torqued first to 7 ft-lbs, then to 14, then to 21.

I then moved to the spark plug bolts tightening from #4, then over #1. My Clymer manual said to tighten these bolts 6-9 ft lbs. I only tried to tighten to 6 ft-lbs at first. As I first tightened #4, I realized the torque wrench never seemed to click, so I stopped tightening & figured I'd move to tighten #1. Had the same issue with #1, & I heard it click, but not the torque wrench, it was the bolt. The bolt popped loose.

First picture just has the broken bolt matched up against a good bolt to show how much it broke off. Second photo shows bolt #4 that I almost broke off as well. Pretty obvious from the warp.

What the hell am I supposed to do now?

I guess I have to remove the cylinder block completely to have the bolt removed? Can't believe I did this.

madmtnmotors · « **Reply #303 on:** June 09, 2015, 03:49:09 PM »

Maybe not.

>First of all, move the head gasket out of the way to a safe place to prevent damage to it.
>COMPLETELY cover the top of the cylinders to prevent contaminating the combustion chamber.
>Cut away a small circle around the offending bolt and tape the cut edge to the top of the cylinder block to prevent contamination of the cylinders/combustion chamber.
>Now go to work on it.

A small pick might turn it out. Looks like you've got a little nub to work with. If that won't budge it, then I recommend left hand drill bit. I usually take a diamond stone in my Dremel to make my center "divot" before drilling. Start with an 1/8" left hand bit first. Usually the heat and force will turn them right out without having to step up to the next bit. If the bolt were seized then I would suggest removal of the cylinders, but since you merely over torqued, there is no longer stress or tension on the threads. You might luck out as long as the threads weren't galled as a result.

Oh yeah, most in-lb torque wrenches won't "click" unless you lock them after adjustment. For small fasteners I usually go to the vise and test for the "click" first. I know, hindsight is 20/20...

AintNoEasyWay · « **Reply #304 on:** June 10, 2015, 11:01:37 AM »

Thanks so much, Wilbur. I plan to give it a go tonight & will report back hopefully with good results.

AintNoEasyWay · « **Reply #305 on:** June 10, 2015, 04:28:29 PM »

Success. Thank you, Wilbur. I got the remainder of the bolt out with an extractor. No threads seem to be stripped, although the bolts do not appear to use all of the thread they have? Not sure how to state this correctly. Maybe a photo will be of help. I also still have the original bolts from when I took apart the top end. The old bolts appear to be much more durable than the new honda bolts I purchased. Is this a surprise to anyone? Has Honda started having cheaper bolts made? Or is this just entirely my fault (I'm okay with that if it is, haha).

madmtnmotors · « **Reply #306 on:** June 10, 2015, 04:33:34 PM »

Good news indeed. I'm betting the torque wrench was not "locked down". I would use the original bolts, especially since these are not seen after assembly.

AintNoEasyWay · « **Reply #307 on:** June 11, 2015, 05:30:25 PM »

Borrowed a torque wrench today that automatically locks once you've selected whatever ft-lbs you want. It's idiot proof. Got my nuts & bolts torqued & I'll recheck the torque tomorrow, then start reassembling the head. If I'm lucky I may get to close everything up & start paint prep this weekend. We'll see. Something always waiting around the corner to hold me up.

AintNoEasyWay · « **Reply #308 on:** June 18, 2015, 05:27:12 AM »

Alright, short update. All I have left to assemble/set up in the head is the rocker arms. Received an oil pump rebuild kit from Elan last week so I'll rebuild that in the next couple days as well.

70CB750 · « **Reply #309 on:** June 18, 2015, 05:47:31 AM »

Quote from: AintNoEasyWay on June 18, 2015, 05:27:12 AM

Alright, short update. All I have left to assemble/set up in the head is the rocker arms. Received an oil pump rebuild kit from Elan last week so I'll rebuild that in the next couple days as well.

Looking good!

AintNoEasyWay · « **Reply #310 on:** June 18, 2015, 06:10:01 AM »

Quote from: 70CB750 on June 18, 2015, 05:47:31 AM

Quote from: AintNoEasyWay on June 18, 2015, 05:27:12 AM
Alright, short update. All I have left to assemble/set up in the head is the rocker arms. Received an oil pump rebuild kit from Elan last week so I'll rebuild that in the next couple days as well.

Looking good!

Thanks, 70! Never could have gotten this far without this awesome forum or Hondaman's excellent book.

Restoration Fan · « **Reply #311 on:** June 18, 2015, 08:15:00 AM »

Quote from: AintNoEasyWay on June 18, 2015, 05:27:12 AM

Alright, short update. All I have left to assemble/set up in the head is the rocker arms. Received an oil pump rebuild kit from Elan last week so I'll rebuild that in the next couple days as well.

Very good news there, Nate. Just don't get in a hurry. Take your time and make sure it's done right. Heck, it's almost 100 degrees outside these days anyway so it's even hot when riding on a bike in this weather.

Just make sure it's good to go for the fall time so you and I can go for a ride through the mountains because I'm headed up through there at some point in the fall....probably early October.

AintNoEasyWay · « **Reply #312 on:** June 18, 2015, 08:46:17 AM »

Quote from: Restoration Fan on June 18, 2015, 08:15:00 AM

Quote from: AintNoEasyWay on June 18, 2015, 05:27:12 AM
Alright, short update. All I have left to assemble/set up in the head is the rocker arms. Received an oil pump rebuild kit from Elan last week so I'll rebuild that in the next couple days as well.

Very good news there, Nate. Just don't get in a hurry. Take your time and make sure it's done right. Heck, it's almost 100 degrees outside these days anyway so it's even hot when riding on a bike in this weather.

Just make sure it's good to go for the fall time so you and I can go for a ride through the mountains because I'm headed up through there at some point in the fall....probably early October.

Can't believe how hot it is up here in TN, & I was born & spent most of my life in the FL heat. Really looking forward to you coming up here, Ron!

AintNoEasyWay · « **Reply #313 on:** June 18, 2015, 04:08:08 PM »

Alright guys, here's a newb question for you, hopefully easy to answer. I made a short video explaining what I'm not sure about:

Basically, I'm not sure if my cam is set to the opposite of what it should be. When I set the cam's notch up & the lines are even, then have the timing mark on TDC, I'm able to adjust #4 IN & EX, #3 EX, #2 IN. Shouldn't I instead be able to adjust #1 IN & EX, #2 EX, & #3 IN. If I rotate 360 back to TDC again, I'm able to adjust #1 IN & EX, #2 EX, & #3 IN, but the notch of the cam faces down.

Thanks for clearing this up!

enwri · « **Reply #314 on:** June 18, 2015, 10:28:48 PM »

I confuse myself with the (all tappets in 2 moves method) and if you can see them with the cover off it makes it easier. look for the rockers on 2/3 that are obviously clear of the lobes, I still do the 4 move way. 1-2-4-3
When its on the 1/4 timing mark, one set of cam lobes will be hanging under the cam, (compression.) while its opposite (1 or 4) will be on the top half interfering with the rockers, (overlap).
adjust the ones on 1 or 4, that have the lobes hanging under and away from the rockers. Half a turn of the crank, and another set of lobes somewhere on either 2 or 3, will be hanging under the cam, adjust those, its opposite will be on top interfering with rockers, half a turn (crank) later the 1 or 4 that was on overlap will now have its lobes hanging under the cam, adjust those, half a turn later (crank) the last of 2 or 3 can be set.

AintNoEasyWay · « **Reply #315 on:** June 19, 2015, 02:29:46 PM »

I guess what I mean is: did I install my cam 180 backwards, accidentally install it on the #4 compression stroke instead on #1 compression stroke at 1-4 TDC? I checked again & both my #1 & my #4 rocker arms appear to be loose (I haven't tightened any of them down yet). The lobes of #1 cam point up & slightly outward (upward "V" shape) & the lobes of #4 point down & out (like "^") when I'm at TDC 1-4 & the cam lines match up with the cam tower cap & the notch points up.

Here's a video that demonstrates the rocket arm play

Lucky K0 · « **Reply #316 on:** June 19, 2015, 04:04:34 PM »

Could any of you point me in the direction of Hondaman and his book?

AintNoEasyWay · « **Reply #317 on:** June 19, 2015, 04:15:27 PM »

Quote from: Lucky K0 on June 19, 2015, 04:04:34 PM

Could any of you point me in the direction of Hondaman and his book?

Sure. http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=65293.0

enwri · « **Reply #318 on:** June 19, 2015, 05:54:55 PM »

So that sounds like TDC compression on No.4, so you may have installed it 180 out.
Don't worry, you can fix it
As long as the timing marks on the cam are right, or exactly 180 degrees out, it will be safe to turn over. (or if the tappets are so loose they never push valves down)
if they show anything else you run the risk of touching valves to pistons. if you feel any solid resistance, stop. (You wont unless you left a bolt or something on top of a piston.)
You can't over adjust the valves too far unless you keep screwing the tappet adjuster down after it has touched the valve, and then kept going and compressed the spring as well.

Turn the crank forward 360 for TDC No.1, or adjust them by the book method but start with the No.4 set.

enwri · « **Reply #319 on:** June 19, 2015, 06:01:31 PM »

Did anyone mention your new compression ratio ,or valve clearancing problems with you decked block or head?

AintNoEasyWay · « **Reply #320 on:** June 19, 2015, 06:05:48 PM »

Quote from: enwri on June 19, 2015, 06:01:31 PM

Did anyone mention your new compression ratio ,or valve clearancing problems with you decked block or head?

No, never heard about any issues. They said everything checked out fine.

AintNoEasyWay · « **Reply #321 on:** June 19, 2015, 06:31:43 PM »

Found from another thread on the forum: "When starting those adjustments the trick is to make sure that cylinder #1 is at TDC on its compression stroke, but the manual doesn't really give any info on how to determine this. If #1 is at TDC on the compression stroke, both valves will be closed and there will be a little bit of play in the rocker arms. You'll be able to grab the adjusters and move them up and down a tiny amount. Mostly you'll be able to hear them click. If they don't budge, it's TDC on the exhaust stroke. Spin the crank 360 degrees and try again."

My issue seems to be that I can move both #1 IN & EX as well as #4 IN & EX, as you can see in the video I posted. How do I determine which one is one the compression stroke?

enwri · « **Reply #322 on:** June 19, 2015, 08:35:18 PM »

The cylinder with the lobes hanging down /\ is on compression, both valves closed. the ones facing up \/ is supposed to be on overlap. both valves slightly open,( when adjusted properly) exhaust just about to close while intake is just opening.
Rocker arms should all be loose (tappets backed out) for ease of assembly, cam lobe position will tell you what cylinder is doing what.
(lobes up, valves open, lobes down, closed.)

You'll notice that cyl. 2-3 lobes are on the sides, but one of each cylinders rockers will be on the base circle of the lobe, the others will be climbing the lobe. adjust the ones that are not trying to climb the lobe.

say "lobe" enough and it just sounds stupid.

AintNoEasyWay · « **Reply #323 on:** June 20, 2015, 06:46:05 AM »

Ah, I'm confusing myself. If the notch on the end of the cam is supposed to be pointing up while matched to 1-4 T mark, how can you have #1 lobes faving like /\? In order for the notch on the end to face up, the lobes must face like V.

enwri · « **Reply #324 on:** June 20, 2015, 09:23:56 AM »

I had to check my book, think I know what you mean,
This picture is of the end of the cam, notch up, I can see the cam lobes and they are /\ as in No.4 in compression, not No.1.

My book says to then rotate it forward until the No.1 inlet valve goes down and back up, then to stop at the 1-4 mark.
They are assuming the tappets haven't been backed out, and the valve will move at all.

I've never noticed that, I've just had that notch up or down, and looked at the cam to do the rest.

News:

Author Topic: 1977 CB750 K7 Resto-mod, Knoxville (Read 97364 times)